Star or Champion Plastic Roc for the masses

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Star or Champion Plastic Roc for the masses

Postby daniebl2 » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:19 am

I'm sure this has been covered but, I was wondering when are we are going to see the Roc in the star plastic or champion ship plastic. (NOT SOME STUPID LIMITED / SPECIAL EDITION RUN) - This is something that is really starting to irritate me. :x
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Postby jgarcia9102 » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:27 am

i think the roc is a disc they will never run in premium plastics. the only chance i see of that if if 10-15 years down the road people forget about the roc, and they run it in the newest premium plastic to get some hype over it, but thats not likely because i dont think there will ever be a time where people stop using the roc.
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Postby ParanoidPiranhasDave » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:38 am

As I've heard it, they use the proceeds from CE Roc sales to fund the Worlds Tournament each year. If they sold a bunch in premium plastics in unlimited availability, there'd be no buyers when it came time to raise money. So the only time i could see that they would do that would be if the tourney got a big corporate sponsor or found some other way to raise the bucks they need. Even then, however, they might not, simply to keep the prestige of the CE Roc.
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Postby cschwab » Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:10 am

I'm not really too anxious, I've found that DX Rocs fly better anyways
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Postby jgarcia9102 » Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:15 am

i agree there. Blake converted me from all champion to about 75% dx, and i wouldnt change a thing. although, champion discs are a good compliment to dx, and an overstabe Champ roc would be a great addition to someone who carries rocs in different stages of wear.
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Postby cschwab » Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:04 pm

I've found that a new DX or KC Roc is generally overstable enough for any of my midrange needs.
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Postby Weebl » Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:32 pm

My champion Glow Roc lasted for months in the overstable portion of my Roc selection in my bag. On average 2-3 rounds a day for 4 months (13 throws a day X 120 days) Roughly 1560 throws it's seen and it's now filling in the broken in spot in my bag. Flipping up from 15 degrees hyzer. Distance of my champion roc is around 335' versus a DX Roc when in the same stage of wear is roughly 350'. For all out distance flex shots the champion will outdistance the DX, but what's the point of throwing a roc for all out distance?

My point is, they're good overstable pig Rocs for someone carrying 3+ Rocs. Other than that, mine's retiring here shortly for nightrounds only.
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Postby Blake_T » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:23 pm

the ce rocs were originally produced as an experiment as a limited fund raising disc for the 01 usdgc (and debuted at the 2001 worlds fly mart).

supposedly, they have said that they will always be limited run in order to beef the usdgc purse...

an argument from the way they do it:
let's say it costs innova $4 to make a champ disc (i just made this number up).

they can sell 5,000 at $25 each and make $105,000.

they can sell 50,000 at $8 each (wholesale) and make $200,000 and donate $105,000... but...

the X-factor: if they make 5,000 they can run 45,000 other discs in the same amount of mold time.... which = $180,000. $180,000 + $105,000 = $285,000, in addition to creating a collectable mystique.

an argument against the way they do it:
the fact that innova makes the champ roc limited run allows discraft to take a strangle hold on the premium plastic midrange market. assume out of the 50,000 champ rocs they would have sold if it was standard production, that 5,000 people buy the CFR ones, 10,000 people buy a champ spider/coyote/shark, and 35,000 people buy z wasp/buzzz/hawk/comet.

innova premium midrange profits = $145,000
discraft premium midrange profits (assuming dc makes $4 each as well) = $140,000.

now let's say innova makes the champ roc a standard production disc...

an estimate on the new sales distribution out of 50,000 discs sold:
25,000 champ roc, 10,000 champ spider/coyote/shark, 15,000 z wasp/buzzz/hawk/comet.

innova premium midrange profits = $140,000
discraft premium midrange profits = $60,000

basically, from a money standpoint, they are better off doing it the way they are. from a marketshare and future growth standpoint, they are better off making it standard run.

people WOULD still buy USDGC stamped rocs, the difference is they wouldn't pay more than $2 more per and they would probably sell more like 2,000 of them instead of 5,000+.

----------------------------------

as for my feelings on it... dx and kc rocs have such a long life span and fly progressively better up to about the 2-3 year mark. if you need more overstability than a brand new dx/kc roc, a midrange disc usually isn't the right choice.
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