Rancho and San Marino Rocs

[Rocaholic74]

San Marino - High Speed stable. Stay straight for a long time before minimal fade.
Ontario - High Speed stable, but easier to manipulate to track to the right. Minimal fade.
Rancho - High Speed Stable. Enters the low speed portion of it's flight before either of the other 2, and has more fade than the other 2.


the differences between the 3 Rocs is more obvious as they break in.

What do you mean when you're describing the Ontario Roc? "Easier to manipulate to track to the right?"

[Working Stiff]

To paraphrase Robert Duvall:

Smell that? You smell that? Roc thread, son. Nothing in the world smells like that. I love the smell of a Roc thread in the morning. Smells like... victory. Someday this web sites gonna end...

[Working Stiff]

San Marino - High Speed stable. Stay straight for a long time before minimal fade.
Ontario - High Speed stable, but easier to manipulate to track to the right. Minimal fade.
Rancho - High Speed Stable. Enters the low speed portion of it's flight before either of the other 2, and has more fade than the other 2.


the differences between the 3 Rocs is more obvious as they break in.

What do you mean when you're describing the Ontario Roc? "Easier to manipulate to track to the right?"

The Ontario is easier to "turn" to the right for a RHBH thrower. It is better for a controlled turnover shot.

[roman]

What do you mean when you're describing the Ontario Roc? "Easier to manipulate to track to the right?"

Basically the more stable a disc is the more power you have to throw it with to get it to fly straight or to turn over. The Ontarios are easiest to throw straight with low power, the Ranchos are the hardest of the three. I would second the advice of just buying a few Ranchos and wearing them in until they become more straight for you (all discs lose stability and fly more straight or become flippy as they wear).

Another reason to go with the Rancho is that they're abundant and readily available whereas the San Marinos and Ontarios are in limited production and as far as I know are only made as tournament fundraisers. The average Roc you find on most store shelves is the Rancho.

[Rocaholic74]

What exactly is a controlled turnover shot? How does it differ from relasing the disc in a slight anny relase and letting the disc work its way back to the left?

[Rocaholic74]

What do you mean when you're describing the Ontario Roc? "Easier to manipulate to track to the right?"

Another reason to go with the Rancho is that they're abundant and readily available whereas the San Marinos and Ontarios are in limited production and as far as I know are only made as tournament fundraisers. The average Roc you find on most store shelves is the Rancho.

What if you had the opportunity to buy a bunch of Ontario's and San Marino's for a good price? I can always find Rancho's. If Ontario's are the easiest to throw, wouldn't that benefit a noob to throw those discs? Or am I wrong in think that b/c that would be counter productive to learning the proper throwing technique?

The reason why I am asking all these questions about Roc's is because they are my favorite disc to throw. They feel the most comfortable in my hand and I have confidence everytime I step onto a tee pad and have a Roc in my hand. Now, that being said, I don't always throw them perfectly but mentally I feel good about throwing a Roc. I just want to have the best disc in my hand to help me improve my form and technique. I don't care about what looks the best or who's going to be impressed b/c I'm throwing a certain disc. I just want the best disc to help me improve and if that means spending some $$ to buy an Ontario or San Marino Roc, well than so be it.

[Working Stiff]

What exactly is a controlled turnover shot? How does it differ from relasing the disc in a slight anny relase and letting the disc work its way back to the left?

To me, all a "controlled" anny shot means is when the disc is doing what I want it to do VS me accidentally torquing a disc to the right. I can make a lot of disc turn over, but if you are talking about a disc that I can turn over and land where I want it to be, the list gets shorter. A LOT shorter. The Ontario Roc is still on the short list.

[Working Stiff]

What if you had the opportunity to buy a bunch of Ontario's and San Marino's for a good price? I can always find Rancho's. If Ontario's are the easiest to throw, wouldn't that benefit a noob to throw those discs? Or am I wrong in think that b/c that would be counter productive to learning the proper trowing technique?

The beauty of the Rancho Roc is that you can carry several in various stages of beatness and cover the whole spectrum of midrange shots. If you start with Ontario's, they will never be overstable enough to cover that end of the spectrum, so you will have to combine them with Rancho's to cover the whole spectrum. They are good to use as a quick fix if you don't have any beat up Rancho's, but once you do have beat up Rancho's you will end up with a stack of Ontario's scratching your head wondering what to do with them.

[garublador]

Some might argue that the stronger fade from the Rancho is a good thing. Predictable fade means predictable distance and predictable flight. IMO, you won't gain anything technique or education wise by throwing Ontarios or Sannies over Ranchos. I'll also second everything Working Stiff has said about Ranchos.

[Rocaholic74]

So then why buy Ontario or San Marino Rocs if the Rancho can cover the whole spectrum of midrange shots? What are the benefits of having either one of those discs?

[garublador]

So then why buy Ontario or San Marino Rocs if the Rancho can cover the whole spectrum of midrange shots? What are the benefits of having either one of those discs?

IMO there isn't an absolute benefit, it's just a perference thing.

[Rocaholic74]

Is the Rancho the best Roc to throw for a noob to improve his technique? Will I see the affects of OAT more in the Rancho mold than the Ontario or San Marino molds? I don't want to be using a disc which hides my imperfections.

Side question:

What is the purpose of the KC Roc then? Does the KC Roc do things the Rancho doesn't?

[garublador]

What is the purpose of the KC Roc then? Does the KC Roc do things the Rancho doesn't?

The KC is just a Rancho in different plastic. They generally start off a bit more overstable and break in slower.

[cmlasley]

I think there is some bad info in this thread.

Unfortunately, a lot of players say that a disc is stable when they mean overstable. Overstable means that it will resist turning right when thrown right handed backhand and will have a moderate to severe left fade in the low speed portion of the flight. Stable means that the disc wants to go straight - not right or left. Understable means that the disc does not resist turn in the high-speed portion of the flight, and usually has little or no low-speed fade. All of these things are relative to your power and your personal armspeed-spin ratio.

There are a few discs that are high-speed understable and low-speed overstable. This can lead to some long shots on S lines, but most discs like this end up getting pretty squirrelly. Some of my favorite discs break in to be high-speed stable and low speed stable (no turn, no fade). Teebirds, Rocs, Gazelles, Sabres, and I'm sure a few others fit these criteria.

Now, to the Rocs. There are three different molds currently used for Rocs. Rancho, Ontario, and re-release San Marino. These molds get their name from the engraving on the bottom of the disc that states where they were made, corresponding to Innova's manufacturing facilities through the years.

DX Ranchos start high-speed overstable and low speed overstable. As they wear, they lose the low speed overstability but keep the high speed stability for a long time. By the time they have the perfect wear, they have virtually no turn and no fade. Many players refer to Ranchos beaten to this stage as "money."

DX Ontarios start high-speed stable (not over or under) and moderately low-speed overstable. They lose the low-speed overstability very quickly in DX, and then lose the high-speed stability shortly thereafter, making them good for right-turning shots.

I've never owned a Sanny in any plastic, so I can't comment. I understand them to be between the Rancho and Ontario in practically every aspect.

KC Rocs are Ranchos run in a slightly different plastic. They are more durable, so they have the flight characteristics of the DX Ranchos for a longer time. They eventually break in to have about the same flightpaths, it just takes longer to get there.

I won't get into the Champ and Star versions, since I haven't thrown them all.

[sleepy]

sleepy