TeeRex and Flattop Rocs

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TeeRex and Flattop Rocs

Postby Bradley Walker » Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:44 am

1. I lost my Brand new 174 Surge (crap!!!!). This was my headwind driver.
2. I found a CFR Wraith on the course (brand new). I had not thrown a Wraith in a while.
3. Carried #17 at Greenbelt for the first time ever with the found Wraith. I stepped this off at 180+ yards, even though the sign says 485ft. Never had another good throw with said disc. It acts crazy...
5. I went to buy another heavy Surge, and they did not have any more heavy Surges.
6. So, I bought a 174 Star TeeRex for a headwind driver.
7. The Teerex is the best fast driver I have ever thrown. Super fast, dead straight, true stable, and not nose sensitive. I use the max weight for heysers and headwinds, and a 169 g for "normal" throws. It is what the Wraith should have been.

1A. I needed a disc to replace the Cyclone (not a good wind disc for me), so I bought an ESP Buzz based on the comments on this board. The Buzz is a very good dicsand does EXACTLY what everyone said it would. Nice turnover and faster than a Roc. Do not throw into a good wind.
2A. I noticed the Buzz was like a very flat Roc without the bead. The local store had some "full color" flattop Rocs. So I bought one.
3A. Said flattop Roc is no longer just a midrange. It is longer, and better in the wind. Making the top flat appears to have added some speed. I can throw these much further than any Roc I have ever played. It goes right where you point it too, and it completely predictable in high winds (love that bead).

I am very happy right now.
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Postby Solty » Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:12 pm

i played a new course yesterday...very flat and open with a 10-15mph wind affecting every hole. I used my teerex for most of my drives as well as my wraith on others. I noticed i hit 380-400 regular with my wraith...on the longer holes....and i managed about 350-375 with my teerex....fighting threw the wind. The teerex feels great in the hand and after it beats up a lil....it did fly very straight for me. All in all, they are great for bomber holes....but my teebird is my bread and buddy for 335-375 where a lil bit more finesse is needed.

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Postby Blake_T » Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:21 pm

the teerex actually isn't true stable but it requrires 450' of line drive power and a moderate wind to show this.

Bradley, i'm confused on what you consider nose sensitive as about 50% of the discs you have talked about with this tend to be the complete opposite of my feelings on their nose sensitivity.

scenario 1:
you can launch it nose up and torque it to nose down vs. a disc that reacts to any nose up instantly. this is mainly a factor of rim width, profile, and high speed stability.

scenario 2:
a disc that will have a tendency to drop from the air and fade late in its flight unless it is thrown with substantial nose down vs. one that is more apt to continue penetrating during its fade regardless of it being turned, or an extreme amount of nose down. this is mainly a factor of rim design.

i'm guessing you are referring to one of these two... but i'm not sure which one. it would shed a lot more light on what you are trying to convey with that terminology.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:12 am

Maybe nose sensitive is not the correct definition.

I am referring to a disc being difficult to precisely place on the correct trajectory, every single time....as being nose sensitive.

Good, consistent trajectory discs are Aviar, Aviar KC Pro, Roc, Buzz, Sidewinder, Cyclone, Eagle and Predator, Surge and Teerex. In that decending order. All go pretty much where you point them (trajectory wise) with little surprises.

Not very consistent are Teebird, Orc, Tracker, Wraith. These are subject to trajectory anomolies.

I see that you are refferring to the stability. I am simply saying some discs are just better than others at going where you point them. To me, throwing on the correct trajectory is equal to the line, and more of a function of the disc than the thrower. This is different, I guess, so I will say "pointability".

For example, I would say a TeeRex is more slightly more "pointable" than a DX Teebird and certainly has more direct line speed to take advantage of lower, flatter runs to the basket.
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Postby Blake_T » Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:36 am

the 4 discs you mentioned have very little "high speed correction" in their flights.

that is, they do not have the ability to adjust with abrupt high speed changes in flight, at least when new (they tend to flip later in flight if at all). most of them will compensate a bit when broken in, some to a lesser extent then others (e.g. the teebird requires the most break in to get line compensation).

i also consider those 4 discs to be pretty much point n shoot on drives falling below max D (controlled D range). that being said, those 4 also have relatively poor high speed lift characteristics on a low flat throw.

i'm still curious as to what types of trajectory anomolies you are referring to. all except the tracker require a fairly nose down throw (which isn't very forgiving).
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Postby Blake_T » Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:39 am

btw, i'm not disagreeing as i believe those 4 discs are a pain in the azz to throw well all the time, but i'm mainly curious as to what aspects of them that you feel make them that way.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:00 am

Blake_T wrote:btw, i'm not disagreeing as i believe those 4 discs are a pain in the azz to throw well all the time, but i'm mainly curious as to what aspects of them that you feel make them that way.


I forgot the new Beast. Compared to the Sidewinder it is sensitive. The Reaper is more sensitive than the Predator.

We need a word to describe "pain in the azz". I feel this is an apt description, afterall.

Some discs want to shoot UP off the plane of the throw, but not all the time. Making extremely precise placement in the sky impossible. This is especially true into the wind.

I certainly cannot explain the fault technically. I just say some discs are better than others.

Theree is another aspect to usablitiy I look for. That is speed sensitivity. For example, if thrown straight downwind in say a 10-15 wind, a Wraith will flair out of its flight very quickly, for a short throw. A Tee Rex will remain nose down longer, and appears to have the same boring tradjectory if pointed to all directions relative to the wind. This is a quality normally found in "beaded" discs like a Roc, the old Eagle, and even the Teebird. The Surge is much better at holding its line at different relative air speeds than a Wraith.
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Postby Blake_T » Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:30 pm

We need a word to describe "pain in the azz". I feel this is an apt description, afterall.


i usually use the acronym PITA to denote that.

Some discs want to shoot UP off the plane of the throw, but not all the time. Making extremely precise placement in the sky impossible.


what you are describing is lift, and it has more to do with what type of air pocket you are working with. for example, if you throw a pull over, you will get a ton of early lift but a pretty constant slight downwards trajectory post-apex (which happens fairly early, like 1/3 of the flight). in contrast, if you rip a straight ahead hyzer flip, any slight change in left/right or in the nose angle will yield huge changes in how the air pocket forms as well as what height the disc will lift to to apex.

Theree is another aspect to usablitiy I look for. That is speed sensitivity.


this is related to cruise speeds and rim characteristics. rims with a notched wing will generally have greater pull at low speeds. while this is predictable, it also reduces hyzer penetration before the fade.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:49 am

Blake_T wrote:
In contrast, if you rip a straight ahead hyzer flip, any slight change in left/right or in the nose angle will yield huge changes in how the air pocket forms as well as what height the disc will lift to to apex.


This would be better served to be located in the "technique" section but here goes.

This statement by Blake would explain why I have set about to eliminate a great deal of the heyser flip from my throwing style. After observing throws by Barry Shultz I realized that he was able to throw all of the discs nearly exactly flat, no matter how hard he threw. This is accomplished by pulling the disc over the top and beyond the plate (the other side of the disc), nearly to the rear creating a tremendous amount of spin. He appears to nearly "lay the plate on the air". This has been much more consistent for me, especially in bad conditions when "air pockets" can have much more affect on the flight of the disc.

So instead of heysering the disc more, I spin it more (say into the wind). The more spin, the more high speed stability. The goal is always to throw as FLAT as is POSSIBLE.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:52 am

Well, I have three rounds under my belt with the TeeRex and FT Rocs.

The TeeRex is really pretty stellar. I would say it throws like new 170 X-Pred but goes about 30' to 50' further. It is so fast I can just throw dead flat bullets without any real need for any height (unless I want to). Very good even downwind. I would not recommed it for a "heyser flip" disc unless you got about a ton of snap. Throws almost dead flat. Heysers heyser.

The FT Rocs are just...well... awesome. 350' distance and incredibly TRUE stable. Only a tick of fade at the end, but worth it to gain the useability at the end. Also very SPEED forgiving. You can throw it slow or fast, and it still flies the same.

I have been throwing -10 rounds and putting +1 rounds.
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Postby bigs348 » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:41 am

Just got 2 DX TeeRexes, a 169 and a 175. I'm pretty excited to get these out in the field -- ever since I got my Star TeeRex when it was first released I've been wishing for a DX version.

I loved the DX Wraith for distance when it got to a certain break in point, but then it just kept getting more and more understable. I'm hoping that the TeeRex will break in the same, but stop the major changes and stay right around the point I want. By the time it starts getting too broken in, maybe they'll be a standard release disc...
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:20 pm

the dx trex is out already? that may almost be worth a throw or two.
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Postby bigs348 » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:31 pm

They're out for tournament stamping. Official release is supposed to be sometime this fall I think.

I posted on the PDGA board that I was looking for any tourney stamped ones, and one guy got back to me with a couple he had from the Washington State Series. So pumped.
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Postby Blake_T » Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:29 am

So instead of heysering the disc more, I spin it more (say into the wind). The more spin, the more high speed stability. The goal is always to throw as FLAT as is POSSIBLE.


i think you are mis-interpreting this a little bit...

when i've seen Barry throw (about 15 times + numerous videos) i've always found he's generally throwing slight hyzer or slight anhyzer, and a lot of this is depending upon what disc he is throwing (i've seen him in his eagle era, beast era, and now with wraiths).

i believe what you are interpreting is that you prefer fast discs, as you don't like the disc to lift. the behavior you are speaking of is mainly a factor of dome height and wing width.

the air pockets are almost mandatory with slower discs to get the necessary lift to carry a decent amount. there are lines that will catch air pockets later in their flight rather than earlier, but this cannot happen with a flat throw (only with an anhyzer that won't catch an air pocket until it pans and starts to flatten).

an example is trying to throw an aviar 300'. if you catch no air pocket off the tee, you have 2 choices:
1) throwing flat with very little lift (this will apex under 10' of height) and pulling up well short of 300'
2) throwing a wide high anhyzer that needs 50' of height and about 50' of left/right (or more) to work.

also, if you watch the majority of Barry's throws, his hand is mostly in front of the disc, once it enters the power zone (passing the center of the chest).
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Postby presidio hills » Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:30 pm

Blake_T wrote:an example is trying to throw an aviar 300'. if you catch no air pocket off the tee, you have 2 choices:
1) throwing flat with very little lift (this will apex under 10' of height) and pulling up well short of 300'
2) throwing a wide high anhyzer that needs 50' of height and about 50' of left/right (or more) to work.


what would be the ideal lines for catching an air pocket with an aviar... trying to go 300'? i think my best putter distance is with a slight hyzer release, kinda high in the air, it flips a little and turns most of the flight coming back at the end. all this talk about air pockets has got me thinking about something new... yet again...
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