Throwing through the apex vs. throwing to the apex.

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Throwing through the apex vs. throwing to the apex.

Postby Blake_T » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:14 am

a lot of people struggle with throwing high and often will be prone to stalling out if they try to throw a distance line.

something that plagues most people when attempting to throw high is that they have a tendency to throw to the apex. the secret to keeping the nose down, especially on distance throws (which i discussed in my distance lines article) is to focus on a point beyond the apex that you want to pass through with a given orientation. basically, instead of aiming with 1 point, you aim with 2.

people regularly do this on hyzers, anhyzer/turnover shots, etc. of shorter length but when faced with something in the wide open they tend to treat it differently.

i did drew one flight path (for a little anhyzer approach) on a picture and then pasted the exact same flight path onto a different picture to show what i am talking about.

Image
Image

basically, on the distance throw, your goal is still the 2nd hoop after passing through the first one.
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Re: Throwing through the apex vs. throwing to the apex.

Postby NWcityguy2 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:45 am

Yeah that is something I struggled with for the longest time (still do at times). I would throw my disc at the hole, it would sail there for most of the flight path then curve off the the right leaving me not as close as I should of been. I'm getting better about it and have actually something which have helped me out quite a bit. At the park I practice at I've found two trees about 25 feet apart. I'll line up behind them at various angles and try to throw through them or around them with a goal of having my disc land in a certain place on the other side. On one side of them is also a fenced off baseball field so depending on which way I'm facing a poorly thrown hyzer or anhyzer will result in a 2-3 minute walk as I have to go the long way around to grab my disc.
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Re: Throwing through the apex vs. throwing to the apex.

Postby black udder » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:16 am

I'd suggest that disc selection plays a good part in the shot as well. You have to have a disc that you can manipulate on those lines. I know that I can take something like my worn pro destroyer and if I get a good crank (350' or better), it'll do that route, but if I pick up a Boss or something similarly overstable, then it pulls out of the throw much, much earlier.

For throwing a hyzer flip shot, I get a similar reaction with my worn champ wraith - again, thrown for 350' or better, I can get that type action, but if I throw that same disc with power/form of 300' or less, then I get a stall shot.

Bottom line being that you have to remember the power required for the disc and then can you power that disc as necessary to get the desired flight.

I've seen quite a few folks try and power a shot like that with something super overstable and they struggle with 250' of power. So they disc goes up to the apex and then stalls out.
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Re: Throwing through the apex vs. throwing to the apex.

Postby Blake_T » Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:12 pm

I've seen quite a few folks try and power a shot like that with something super overstable and they struggle with 250' of power. So they disc goes up to the apex and then stalls out.


disc stability can always be compensated for with angles (regardless of power). the number of lines available increases the more power you have. basically, for a given power level with a given disc, there is a peak height available to that thrower where anything above that will stall out.

my point with this drawing is more that most stall outs happen due to incorrect focus rather than lack of power... basically, most people stall stuff out well-below their available peak height because of that.

when i teach people line shaping drills i will add a 3rd (and sometimes 4th) hoop with the goal of passing through all 3. most of it is done with visualization, then attempting to force the disc to perform said visualization. the thing is, people aren't always successful at it, but in more cases than not, they get CLOSER to what they wanted flight-wise when the more hoops they try to throw through rather than just hucking something out there and hoping the disc behaves how they wanted it.
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Re: Throwing through the apex vs. throwing to the apex.

Postby zj1002 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:41 am

I did the same sorta thing when I played football. But it wasn't something I so much thought about every time, it was something I just picked up with experience from throwing a lot of footballs. I know it is a different motion but the same principle you are talking about still applies.
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Re: Throwing through the apex vs. throwing to the apex.

Postby Blake_T » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:53 pm

I did the same sorta thing when I played football. But it wasn't something I so much thought about every time, it was something I just picked up with experience from throwing a lot of footballs. I know it is a different motion but the same principle you are talking about still applies.


there's a lot of sports that share similar types of visualizing and intents. i've known pitchers over the years who used that sort of aiming with curveballs, basketball players that would practice shots with a hand in their face, etc.

bowling is another one... aiming with the arrows in order to reach a point where the ball can approach the pins at an ideal angle, etc.
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Re: Throwing through the apex vs. throwing to the apex.

Postby JHern » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:31 pm

There is a hole at a local course where I always screw this up...410' to the basket, completely open on the left, and steep hill/trees to the right. I've made throws practicing in the field (using very over-stable plastic) that could get me into a 30-40' putting range (for a potential deuce), but for some reason every time I throw on this hole I do something different, the nose isn't far enough down to penetrate forward, and the disc stalls just after the apex. I'm going to try this visualization to see if it helps...seems promising.
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Re: Throwing through the apex vs. throwing to the apex.

Postby masterbeato » Tue May 04, 2010 12:25 pm

i shall add another one for tunnel shots...two different lines (only reason is because this is fun as hell!).

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Re: Throwing through the apex vs. throwing to the apex.

Postby rehder » Tue May 04, 2010 10:53 pm

Ya, Im generally going for the blue line, with a hyzerflip. I find that its easier for me, since I dont have to risk going in the schule as much. (Red line is along the schule a long way, and when fade sets in, you can miss landingzone.)
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Re: Throwing through the apex vs. throwing to the apex.

Postby JR » Thu May 06, 2010 2:01 pm

Both or straight down the gut with hyzer being the least common route for me. Depends on how hurt and tired I am, wind etc. for those kind of holes.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Throwing through the apex vs. throwing to the apex.

Postby Shank » Thu May 06, 2010 5:20 pm

rehder wrote:Ya, Im generally going for the blue line, with a hyzerflip. I find that its easier for me, since I dont have to risk going in the schule as much. (Red line is along the schule a long way, and when fade sets in, you can miss landingzone.)


i've been throwing this shot a lot with an x comet or a beat roc on a tunnel shot at my local course and have found it to be the easier line for me as well.
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Re: Throwing through the apex vs. throwing to the apex.

Postby masterbeato » Thu May 06, 2010 9:01 pm

i generally go for the blue line with a more stable disc, brand new esp cyclone, z wasp, teebird, eagle.

i go for both equally in the end because sometimes i do not feel confident in hitting the blue line. red line is mostly for beat in discs for me.

i try to shape those 2 lines more so than straight up the gut trying to throw it straight because i find it more successful not to.
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