Guitar Rigs

[NoLifeLeft]

Thanks. I love Ibanez for basses. I'm looking at a SRX right now unless I find something cool used on ebay.

[jubuttib]

What are you looking for? I'm still active with looking for deals even tho I've pretty much got what I need. I also still have m Swr Workingman's 4004 head and Swr 4x10.

Basically I have a Fernandes 5 string (band property, I just use it), and for recording an X3 Live (also works as a DI-box for some gigs). I play in a metal band, so I need a fair amount of volume, and I really like the bass tone of Henkka Seppälä (Children of Bodom), don't really know the right terms to describe it though. I do have quite a lot of melodies to play (basically everything I had when I played rhythm guitar, octave or more lower and minus the chords) so even above tone considerations I need to be able to hear and pick out what I'm actually playing.

Those are my needs, what sort of rig should I be looking for? I know pretty much nothing about bass gear.

Oh, and I'm also on a budget about as tight as the density of a neutron star, and buying from eBay etc. really isn't a great option, due to the way Finnish customs works... I'm basically just looking for suggestion on what sort of gear to look for, more than where to find it from.

[AciDBatH666]

I'll give you a full write up in a few hours or maybe tomorrow. I'll give links too because I had some similar questions that you're asking that I asked on Talkbass.com and found some answers.
Our drummer was having difficult hearing me a while back, So I added some distortion because some guys on the TB.com forum told me it would help me cut thru the mix a little.

Ordered a Sansamp Bass Driver DI, and the next practice our drummer told me I was ALL that he could hear.
I liked it so much that when I built my rig I got a Sansamp RBI, which is the same thing as the pedal but a rack version with an added XLR setting and a mid control. A lot of the problem with metal bassists not punching thru is because they have their mids scooped. I'll write more when I get a chance.

[Leopard]

You plan on using the X3 board as your preamp? I love those things. Tweak it enough and I think it's a viable go-to preamp.

[jubuttib]

You plan on using the X3 board as your preamp? I love those things. Tweak it enough and I think it's a viable go-to preamp.

Yes, unless a better solution rears it's head (though that usually implies spending money, which I'd rather not do). And yes, I love it also, it is a magnificent piece of kit. Still, I'm going to get a HD500 at some point, those things are pretty damn amazing. Too bad I won't be able to sell the X3 because I'll still need it for the bass amps etc...

Our drummer was having difficult hearing me a while back, So I added some distortion because some guys on the TB.com forum told me it would help me cut thru the mix a little.

Definitely going to use some distortion, that's a given. =)
What setting were you using in the Bass Driver DI? Just noticed the X3 has a model of it, I need to try it out and see what happens.

[JR]

Sorry for the off topic question. Which one helps playing DG more guitar or bass? Asking out of curiosity.

[NoLifeLeft]

I guess vigorous bass with a pick could increase pinch strength.

[Leopard]

I guess vigorous bass with a pick could increase pinch strength.

this. rock pick-bass is a *chore*. besides pinch strength, you'll get forearm and shoulder work.

[AciDBatH666]

jubuttib:
This'll prolly be a long post, but should hopefully have a lot of info you're interested in

The settings that I was running on my Sansamp BDDI was pretty simple. The drive wasn't even halfway I think. I'd have to plug it up to see but it's pretty sensitive and you really don't need a lot of drive to punch thru the mix. I have the presence prolly halfway. Presence on the Sansamp kind of gives a little boost to the high end.
Bass was turned to about 2oclock (12 was center, lower was cut, higher was boost). Treble was about center I think. Blend was 100%.

Most places I read were telling me to scoop my mids. Well I did this and it sounds great solo. But combined with a band, especially two guitarists with a LOT of gain, and it didn't cut it. You're going to need to boost your mids or at least put them flat. I was competing for the same frequencies and I could barely hear myself play. The Sansamp, or virtually any pedal will boost certain frequencies which is why I think my drummer heard me better with it.
I'd previously tried the Boss OBD-3 pedal and I hated it. It was more of a fuzz sound. I also have a Boss ME50-B, which is basically just a multi-fx processor. I don't use it for distortion, just for having all my effects crammed on one board. I rarely use it tho but it's nice to have.

As far as looking for gear, you'll need to know about how big you need to aim. It's not the same as guitars. Guitars were easy. I used to have a Crate GX-130C head with a 4X12 cab. Easy. Ran a Korg G-1 Distortion processor and I was done.
With bass, you need to decide on speaker size, how many watts your head is going to push.... The most common and best choice from what I've found is a 4X10 cab. There's a lot of talk about people thinking that adding a 1X15 will add more low end, but it doesn't worth that way. The 4X10s will push more air than a 1X15 and have better response.
If you're jamming with buddies with half stacks, you're going to need at LEAST 300 watts and a cab capable of handling it. You'll also need to learn a little bit about resistance and Ohms. I never had to deal with that with guitars, but with bass there's different configurations you can run.

The first rig I bought was an SWR Workingman's 4004. 400w (@4ohms, 260w @8ohms). My 4X10 is an 8 ohm cab. So the 4004 plugged into that 4X10 cab was only pushing 260 watts. But in order to be heard thru 2 guitarists I found that I was cranking it up to 7 or 8 most of the time. They play LOUD. Now if I plugged another cab up to it, I'd be pushing 460 watts instead of just 260. If I plugged 1 4ohm cab into it, it would get the full 400 watts.

My current gear is a Gallien Krueger 8X10 that's 4 ohms. The Gallien Krueger pushes 700 watts @4ohms.
Even if I use my smaller setup with my 4X10 cab, I'm still going to use my 700w head because that means I won't have to push the head so hard by cranking the volume. With bass gear, a lot of people like having a LOT of wattage to have more headroom. Meaning you overpower your cab so that you can keep your head at a low volume, not having to push it to the limits like I was with my less powerful SWR 400 watt head. I couldn't even crank that GK head past 3 when I was trying out that cab this weekend to buy. It's LOUD.


Here's a couple of threads I started asking a couple of questions that you might find some insight from reading.
This one I asked if adding a 1X15 to my 4X10 setup would help me punch thru.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=706257

This was a guy asking what's next for gear for a metal setup.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=706233

[jubuttib]

Thanks for the info mate, I'll look into it. I was thinking 4x10" anyway, since they naturally have a tighter response and better definition than one huge element. A tight response is something I'm going to need.

In the end though my budget will decide what I'm going to get, I'll look around for deals, but I'm not too hopeful to be honest. In Finland you don't usually get used stuff that much cheaper, unless they're obviously broken...

[Leopard]

jubuttib -- are you using the graphic EQ on the X3? that's like a maker-or-breaker for a lot of sounds on that thing, especially if you're running into a power amp and cab. i use the software editor nowdays, which makes me more prone to tweak the living shit out of each patch. often times the high highs or high mids will make/break a sound.

X3 is so freakin good for bass. i'm actually considering making it my primary recording interface/preamp, running a mixer bus to its auxes for recording. i also have a KP3 kaoss pad in the fx loop, which crazies up the spectrum of possibilities.

IMO you only need a power amp and a cab, but i'm not exclusively a bass performer and also a huge X3 fanatic.

[AciDBatH666]

I forgot to mention that. If you're using a preamp, then all you need is a power amp. Just run the EQ on the amp flat and let your preamp dial in the sound.

[jubuttib]

From what I've seen in the guitar world, "just" buying a power amp is often more expensive than getting a normal head... Which is why I bought a cheap 100W Valveking, and connect the X3 straight to the power section.

Leopard: I haven't played around with it massively, I mainly just do the standard hi and low cut to remove hissing/crackling and booming. Guess I need to start fiddling with it.

[AciDBatH666]

Well you don't need to really buy an actual "Power amp". You can just buy whatever the hell you need that's got the wattage you need, and bypass the EQ on it and use it basically just for power.
I can plug my Sansamp RBI into the input, or into the FX Return. When I plug it into the FX return, none of the eq on my GK head works. It's just there to power the speakers. There's multiple ways to run it. When I get into our practice space and I can be loud I'll go between a direct line in and the FX Return to see which I like more.
Going into the input means I've got two sets of EQs to deal with, so I'll have to decide if it muddys it up or not once I get to that point.

[NoLifeLeft]

Ordered an Ibanez SRX695, should be here Wed.