Guitar Rigs

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Re: Guitar Rigs

Postby Leopard » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:12 pm

things i've obsoleted with a new purchase, within the last 10 years:

last year i semi-retired my mackie board for a digital 01v
my POD X3 replaced the parallel combo of j-station/POD2 ... repurposed for bassist and other guitarist respectively
......... that's it! :)

still usin the sampler and synth i've had since '98. every purchase has built upon my setup with an eye toward the future. outboard processors, mixers, software... no replacing or trading up. i get the right shit (for me) the first time :)

amp sluts are a different breed :lol:
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Re: Guitar Rigs

Postby black udder » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:57 pm

so I posted the videos of Andy Timmons...

Looking for suggestions on what could generate that kind of a sound - or Blake - an analysis of his sound.

I'm jonesing for a Mesa Boogie now, but I know it's not the only amp that can deliver that. I like the guitar, but it's only a couple single coils and a humbucker - it's not unique.

I just don't play much and don't hang around a lot of equipment, so would appreciate the knowledge some of you other folks can drop on me.

here's one of the videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRewopc1 ... re=related

Not sure what he's playing here, but I don't think it's his full rig as in the other ones.
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Re: Guitar Rigs

Postby Blake_T » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:07 am

Not sure what he's playing here, but I don't think it's his full rig as in the other ones.


in most cases when someone is playing a large venue w/ tons of amps they are really just playing like a 1x12 combo version mic'd w/ a bunch of fake amps.

actually, that sound on there isn't really unique to mesa, aside from the low end being a bit tighter.

things you would need to dupe it: hot alnico V pickups w/ a maple fretboard. any body wood would probably be okay here. to match his dynamics the amp has to be VERY loud and you also would need to be able to adjust your pickup selector and volume knob on the fly.

this is actually a pretty easy tone to dupe as most tube amps could do this if you had a good overdrive with a lot of low end to help supplement things and get that low end crunch while still retaining a mostly bitey slightly overdrive clean tone.

out of the mesas that would do that tone... pretty much all of them, but a lonestar or nomad would probably do best. i'm guessing you could dial in a .22/.50 caliber, subway blues/rocket, or F30/50 nearly as well for half the price, but a couple might need an overdrive pedal.

honestly i think you could "almost" get that tone with something like a peavey classic 50 if you had speakers with a bit more headroom/punch and a supplementary hifi overdrive with a lot of pass on the low end (e.g. full tone fulldrive).

basically, you are looking for something with 6L6's, a drive setting on the clean channel, and speakers with a good bass response and a lot of midrange punch.
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Re: Guitar Rigs

Postby jubuttib » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:23 am

Blake_T wrote:in most cases when someone is playing a large venue w/ tons of amps they are really just playing like a 1x12 combo version mic'd w/ a bunch of fake amps.

This. The only reason I'd even use a 4x12" cab is because closed cabs usually work better with metal than open back combos.

Rant: I'm sick and tired of seeing big live shows. Nowadays the volume is just so damn loud you can't hear the music. If I need to wear earplugs to be able to hear the instruments (without them everything just turns into mush) there's something very wrong going on there. I like seeing artists play, I just wish I could hear them also. This is not so much of a problem with blues, jazz etc. but definitely makes metal gigs almost unbearable.

Too bad most people aren't there for the music, they just demand the kind of volume that makes your innards bleed...
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Re: Guitar Rigs

Postby jubuttib » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:40 am

By the way, Blake, you seem to know about this stuff more than the average music store clerk, I was wondering if you could tell me what's going on with my rig at the moment.

I'm running an LTD MMV guitar with EMG-81 pickup -> Pod X3 Live -> Peavey Valveking 212 combo. I like the sounds I'm getting just setting the Peavey to clean and neutral and building the sound with the Pod. The only thing that's bothering me is palm muting. Sometimes when I do low palm mutes (around D) I get this weird, delayed thump from the amp, almost like a delay or a very funky reverb. This never happens when I'm not muting the strings and never when playing higher than F#. I also don't get this when I'm just plugging the Pod straight into the mixing board. It's not a huge problem but sometimes makes my playing not sound as accurate as it should otherwise.

Is this just a speaker problem (I know the VK212 doesn't have particularly good speakers) or something else? I'm going to try it out with my friend's XXX cab at some point, I'll see what that does. And if this is a common thing and can be fixed with a pair of good speakers, then what would you recommend for someone playing "technically melodic extreme Nintendo metal" (like our drummer puts it) who likes clear, Children of Bodom'esque distortion?
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Re: Guitar Rigs

Postby Bradley Walker » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:26 am

Blake_T wrote:basically, you are looking for something with 6L6's, a drive setting on the clean channel, and speakers with a good bass response and a lot of midrange punch.


I totally agree. This is the classic 6l6 Boogie or Fender attack of the 6l6 power amp. The preamp is a little saturated, but barely, and the power amp has a lot of headroom.

Alnico single coils (it sounds like Lace Sensors to me, but that is not what he is using). My Dimarzio Virtual Vintage Blues are a little similar but more "vintage" than this sound.

Seriously, a Peavey XXX combo with a decent set of tubes would do this. Set on "loose" on the crunch channel with the gain down and the guitar volume down.

The Peavey XXX is the poor man's Boogie. Even better with a NOS V1.

I looked through my 3120, and it has all Groove Tube select Fender 12ax7 tubes. These tubes work wonderfully in the circuit. They give tons of gain with no noise or feedback. However, there are NO NEW 12 AX7's that can compete with the old US tubes for the clean signal (for the V1 position in the amp). Seriously, I think my 3120 sounds like a Fender now on clean. It sounded like cardboard with the new (although premium) 12ax7 and it always had a lit "crunch on the attack. That is all gone now. I tested a bunch of these new Russian made preamp tubes in my 2120 and they all sound 2D in comparison the Sylvania's I get for $25 on Ebay. ITS THE TUBES!!

I spoke to Peavey about my amp. They said it is 100% tube. There are no op amp circuits in the design. They even sent me the schematic. Sure enough, they use a simple tube stack for their gain circuit (just like Boogie). So, the preamp tubes will make a HUGE difference in the sound.

I am going to add a choke to my amp, which will sweeten the attack even more, but after that, I think I am done. The choke with give the amp even more headroom and tightness, and make it "smarter" (Boogies already have these BTW). A choke is a cheap easy mod. It is two wires for goodness sake. Why Peavey does not use them I do not know.

I run my chorus, delay slap, and reverb through my effects loop with my Digitech 2120. It works great (even better since I discovered the "global EQ" knobs work wonders). The effects loop really works. Maybe as good or better than the Boogie. I would really like to go all analog, but gt for now the rack works well.
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Re: Guitar Rigs

Postby Bradley Walker » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:29 am

jubuttib wrote: Sometimes when I do low palm mutes (around D) I get this weird, delayed thump from the amp, almost like a delay or a very funky reverb. This never happens when I'm not muting the strings and never when playing higher than F#.


Sounds like the "thump" from palm muting is shaking your tubes. I would suspect either a loose tube in the socket (bad or dirty socket), or a tube. I had a loose tube and it would "flub" and bounce with vibration.

Your Valveking is still all tube. Most everything that happens (if the thing still works) is in the tubes.
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Re: Guitar Rigs

Postby Bradley Walker » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:32 am

jubuttib wrote:
I'm running an LTD MMV guitar with EMG-81 pickup -> Pod X3 Live -> Peavey Valveking 212 combo.


You should run the Pod into the effects loop return, not into the front. You should bypass the preamp altogether.

Use the Pod output knob as the volume.
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Re: Guitar Rigs

Postby jubuttib » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:56 am

Bradley Walker wrote:Sounds like the "thump" from palm muting is shaking your tubes. I would suspect either a loose tube in the socket (bad or dirty socket), or a tube. I had a loose tube and it would "flub" and bounce with vibration.Your Valveking is still all tube. Most everything that happens (if the thing still works) is in the tubes.


Could be, could be. I initially thought it's weird resonance reaction, but could very well be tubes. I'll see if it still happens with the cab. Of course then the amp won't vibrate as much anyways. =)

Bradley Walker wrote:You should run the Pod into the effects loop return, not into the front. You should bypass the preamp altogether.Use the Pod output knob as the volume.


Yeah, I did this at first. I actually prefer running it into the front. The preamp in the Valveking seems to do good things to it. I just have to remember to set the Pod to "combo front" instead of "power amp". Also, running it into the front allows me to use the tone controls on the amp to adjust the sound for the room, without having to go through all my presets. This, and sometimes I like to just kick off all the amp modeling and just use the Pod as a replacement for a stompbox. I don't have to mess with the wiring, just the tone controls.
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Re: Guitar Rigs

Postby Bradley Walker » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:05 pm

jubuttib wrote:t. The preamp in the Valveking seems to do good things to it. I just have to remember to set the Pod to "combo front" instead of "power amp".


Interesting....
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Re: Guitar Rigs

Postby Blake_T » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:28 pm

Is this just a speaker problem (I know the VK212 doesn't have particularly good speakers) or something else? I'm going to try it out with my friend's XXX cab at some point, I'll see what that does. And if this is a common thing and can be fixed with a pair of good speakers, then what would you recommend for someone playing "technically melodic extreme Nintendo metal" (like our drummer puts it) who likes clear, Children of Bodom'esque distortion?


the good 'ol palm mute thud. i know exactly what you are talking about. i'm also guessing if you were to do a 5th string rooted power chord w/ a doubled lower 5th (on the 6th string) almost anywhere on the fretboard. assuming this happens at every volume, it's your POD with some root of the cause possibly caused by your pickups. i use fugazi's "waiting room" as a "heat test" for pickups and crunch levels on distortion pedals. if it's "hot enough" it will crunch that riff even at low volumes on an amp. if it thuds, it ain't hot enough. either your pickups are so high output with the active preamp that they're clipping the low end or the pod just doesn't have enough low end headroom and it's rolling off the signal.

i've owned 2 VK's and both of them would handle the low end palm muting with the dirty channel or using certain distortion pedals, so yah, it's your Pod. usually this goes away if you are playing at a loud volume. as a test, disconnect your pod and use your VK's dirty channel with a lot of volume and see if it still happens.
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Re: Guitar Rigs

Postby jubuttib » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:58 pm

Blake_T wrote:assuming this happens at every volume, it's your POD with some root of the cause possibly caused by your pickups.

Blake_T wrote:usually this goes away if you are playing at a loud volume.

I've only noticed it when using high volumes (though I've never had a reason to go all out on the thing), and it doesn't happen when I connect the Pod to either my computer, a mixer or my floor monitor (which I've since sold so can't go check again). So if it's the Pod, it's how the Pod works together with the amp, it doesn't do it by itself. I'm not even really pushing the low end too much, I tend to stray away from really bass heavy tones (that's what the bass player is for). The EMG-81 is running on two batteries (18 volts) which might heat it up some, mainly it's supposed to increase headroom. And for the record, it's impossible to get a clean sound out of it without rolling back the volume on the guitar.

Blake_T wrote:i've owned 2 VK's and both of them would handle the low end palm muting with the dirty channel or using certain distortion pedals, so yah, it's your Pod. usually this goes away if you are playing at a loud volume. as a test, disconnect your pod and use your VK's dirty channel with a lot of volume and see if it still happens.

I'm using the clean channel though. But yeah, I'll try this out when I get it back, my friend loaned it for their trip to the studio. One thing I might be doing wrong is having the volume on the Pod too high, considering it's plugged into the front. I can't say for sure (been ages since I used the VK without the Pod) but I faintly remember it being way, way louder even on the clean presets than just my guitar plugged in. I'll experiment when I get a chance.
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Re: Guitar Rigs

Postby Blake_T » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:46 pm

I'm using the clean channel though. But yeah, I'll try this out when I get it back, my friend loaned it for their trip to the studio. One thing I might be doing wrong is having the volume on the Pod too high, considering it's plugged into the front. I can't say for sure (been ages since I used the VK without the Pod) but I faintly remember it being way, way louder even on the clean presets than just my guitar plugged in. I'll experiment when I get a chance.


if the pod is boosting the input even harder then you are probably clipping the input. are you going through the db padded input on the amp?
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Re: Guitar Rigs

Postby black udder » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:18 pm

Thanks Blake & Brad... one comment about Andy's rig - there's a video I posted earlier that talks about it - he has the Stilletto and Lonestar amps with a TC Electronics switching system so he can combine certain pedals and amp settings with one button. It's not overly complicated and it's just those two amps, not a wall. I didn't see those amps and he didn't need them for one song, so I was guessing he was just playing in either a boogie amp in the store or just a tube amp.

The guitar has dimarzio pickups in it - I'd throw them in the strat I have, but I really like the Bill Lawrence ones that are in there. Obviously, the only option is to buy another guitar :P

I'll check out the peavey's.
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Re: Guitar Rigs

Postby Blake_T » Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:46 pm

I'll check out the peavey's.


just know that the lower gain peaveys (e.g. the classic 30 and classic 50) will need an overdrive booster... you should factor that into the price.

i have a peavey xxx and think it's pretty decent, especially if you can get one cheap. i picked up a NOS EFX40 (40 watt 1x12 w/ digi effects) for $425. i have found the xxx head for $300 before used.

honestly i'd dig around for some of the lower end mesa's. you can get F-30's/50's, subways, and .22/.50 calibers for like $500.
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