WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

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WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

Postby AciDBatH666 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:30 am

I know we've got to have a few addicts in here. I, along with several other buddies can't wait for Cata. I'm getting tired of people bitching about GS. Blizz really jacked up things with all the crap they've added, and it's going to be nice to going back to the basics.
I mean hell, I went to update my sigs for our guild's website and had to choose 5 stats to showcase. I forgot there were so many damn things to customize in there. You can't raid without hit, then there's SP, then Crit, then AP, then haste....yada yada.

Anyways... What's some other peoples thoughts on Cata? I can't wait for it. I've been doing arenas on my Shammy for a while. I got tired of being gimped so I decided to power level my 29 Twink Pally. Got him to 80 and am in almost full Relentless so far. Shammy's always been geared, but the Mana regen is CRAP.
Holy pally? I can cast for DAYS and never worry about crap with Beacon. Especially with my buddy in 2s.
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Re: WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

Postby Jeronimo » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:48 am

Great Acid, I finally quit and you decide to come on here tie me off and hold the needle for me.

I might come back long enough to give cata a shot. I've been on the wagon (off the wagon?) for over a year now so I have no idea what they're doing right now. Not sure I want to know either.
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Re: WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

Postby AciDBatH666 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:01 am

Lol.
Well I can gladly say that I'm more of a casual player. I've left and come back several times. Usually what'll happen is a game will come out on PS3 or something where me and my RL friends that play all cancel our accounts for a few months and then ultimately come back.
We quit when Call of Duty MW came out. Then one of us said "Dude they changed up arenas and some of the BGs, It's pretty nice". So we'll all jump back on outta nowhere.

With Cataclysm, they're bringing it back to old school. Dumbing it down kind of like Vanilla was. Which I liked. Back in Vanilla on my rogue, I was in blues and I could hang with lots of classes decked out in purples. We're talking Tier 1 and some 2 pieces.
I could take them on one on one, and somewhat keep up with them in dps. It was about the skill.
Now it's all gear. You can't complete.
EVERYONE is hung up on GEAR SCORE at the moment. Which is the most BS thing I've ever heard to date in the game. It's basically puting a number on you, and saying "You can't raid this because your score is too low". It pisses me off because i give off some mad heals on my shammy with 3K SP, but because my numbers aren't to their requirement I can't raid.
This is where Blizz pissed me off. When they came out with the 5 minute enrage timer, all of a sudden you HAD to have the gear to down the bosses in the time allotted. Back in the days of Vanilla, I had no idea what my dps was. I just knew in MC and BWL my total dps was at the top of the list with the other rogues. Now, you're FORCED to have the gear to do the bosses. WHich sucks because it takes away some of the skill.
That's how Pvp kind of is. If you don't have the Resilience, you're screwed in pvp. Or at least you should be.

So I dropped it and decided to just pvp with my friends. We've been doing really good in arenas. I think we were ranked 206th overall in our 5s group. My shammy is super gimped with mana regen problems, even with full Relentless and all MP5 gear.... Which is why I leveled the Pally up. In pvp, there's a few classes that are just way OP. Especially in Arenas. They actually gimped healing in all PvP 10% because it was out of hand. Me and my DK buddy had a battle the other day that lasted 20 minutes. I kid you not.
Holy pally + DK Vs Tree druid + Dk. It was never ending. We eventually just quit the match because it would never end.
CC in arenas is out of control... Gets annoying when you get Cycloned nonstop, or sheeped for that matter.
Anyways. I'm rambling as usual.
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Re: WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

Postby Dig It » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:16 am

Odd I was just thinking back to my hardcore raiding days. SOme very awesome times being a full time raider.

Can you give me some links or more info on what you mean by bringing it back to basics? My ideal would be that they remove Resilience and go back to the way it was in the High Warlord days. I hate that you cannot be a bad ass in PvP and do well in PvE, and be a high progression PvEr and take the gear you've earned and go do well in BGs. Anyway, doubt that's what they are doing in Cata but I just *wish* they would.

Don't get me started on GS. I first raided on my rogue when MC was the hotness and I never would have gotten into a guild with the GS shit they have now. My gear was ass and I didn't know how to do the hot deeps yet but without being given the chance I never would have made it so far in content and become a top level dps.

I could rant further but you'd know what I would say as I think our feelings are in accord on this.
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Re: WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

Postby Jeronimo » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:44 am

AciDBatH666 wrote:Lol.


EVERYONE is hung up on GEAR SCORE at the moment. Which is the most BS thing I've ever heard to date in the game. It's basically puting a number on you, and saying "You can't raid this because your score is too low". It pisses me off because i give off some mad heals on my shammy with 3K SP, but because my numbers aren't to their requirement I can't raid.
This is where Blizz pissed me off. When they came out with the 5 minute enrage timer, all of a sudden you HAD to have the gear to down the bosses in the time allotted. Back in the days of Vanilla, I had no idea what my dps was. I just knew in MC and BWL my total dps was at the top of the list with the other rogues. Now, you're FORCED to have the gear to do the bosses. WHich sucks because it takes away some of the skill.


This is the same shit that pissed me off to the point where I refused to join raiding guilds. I always said that dps/healing/etc meters were ruining the game. The argument always brought forth to me was it lets you see who's not doing their share. Bullshit. They're fuckin epeen meters for the l33t heads. I'm glad I left when I did, although if its really going back to Vanilla that might actually interest me.

Healing and CC in arena's pissed me off too. I can remember screaming at my monitor because I would get CC'd for what seemed like an endless period of time. There's always some combo in the arena that is unstopable too, balancing the classes is a nearly impossible and futile task. I give them credit for trying but someone always gets an edge at some point. Warlock/shadow priest, pally/warrior, pally/DK, druid/warrior...

My other biggest greif with the game has always been gear. It's your initiative to keep playing and its your downfall all at the same time. We raid week after week just to get that damn helmet/breastplate/etc... Then if you have no gear to start with, you can't get anyone to take you to get better gear and the viscious cycle begins anew. Personally I'd be happy with reducing the improvements gear brings you and instead have it be more of a cosmetic thing. It always pissed me off how weak you are without your armor on...

Back when it was Vanilla WoW I loved it to death because I joined up in a guild and built up a friendship with them that has lasted outside of the game. What people don't understand about these games when they say they're an abomination and destroy peoples lives, its not just the allure of the game. It's also the friends you meet and want to hang out with. Eventually that guild fell apart and the core group of 10-12 players stayed together but we couldn't do anything anymore. The game has never truly been "accessible" for the casual group of players. It's a shame.
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Re: WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

Postby AciDBatH666 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:57 am

Ahhhh but your wrong by saying it's not accessible to the casual players. That's EXACTLY what they catered the game towards. Because now, you can run 5 man heroics in 20 minutes and get purples. Invest a little more time and get a pug going for a 10 man.
Back in the day, only about 4 guilds were decked in purples. Now, EVERYONE is loaded with purples. It's not "epic" anymore.

I can't remember specifically, but dealing with the cosmetics you mentioned..... Something is going to happen to where Cosmetic bonuses are going to be the only major bonus that hardcore raiders are going get over others. I THINK. A friend mentioned this last night but I can't remember the specifics. Let me see if I can find a quick rundown of how it's going back to old school.
This is a lot of info, but it should give you a nice run down of what's changing/getting removed.



A few of the more major points:

* Stamina -- Non-plate wearers will have a lot more.
* Spirit -- Only found on healing gear.
* Intellect -- Grants spell power.
* MP5 -- Gone completely.
* Spell power -- Only on weapons, and just to make them clearly a caster item.
* Attack power -- Gone on most items.
* Parry -- No longer provides 100% avoidance and no longer speeds up attack.
* Resilience -- Only affects player damage and player crit damage, no impact on crit chance, mana drains, etc...
* Block Value -- Gone, 30% passive block value now when wearing a shield.
* Weapon Skill -- Gone completely.
* Gem Color -- Few stats changing. Hit will likely become a blue gem (it's yellow now).
* Defense -- Gone, becomes dodge, parry, or block rating.
* Reforging -- You'll be able to reforge gear to customize your stats -- 50% of stat X can become stat Y. Restrictions apply (no Stamina->Strength, for instance).


What You'll See on Gear



Stamina - Because of the way we will be assigning Strength, Agility, and Intellect, non-plate wearers will end up with more Stamina than before. Health pools will be much closer between plate-wearers and other classes.

Spirit - Come Cataclysm, this stat should only be found on healing gear. Non-healing casters will have other systems in place to regenerate mana, and we are designing special solutions for Elemental shaman and Balance druids who often share gear with healers (more on this below). Raid buffs that currently boost Spirit (such as Blessing of Kings) will only boost the primary stats of Stamina, Strength, Agility, and Intellect. We are also likely changing the five-second rule and other quirks of the current regen system.

Intellect - Intellect will now grant Spell Power (more on this below). Intellect will also provide less mana than it currently does.

Haste - Haste will become more attractive for melee classes by allowing them to recover resources such as energy and runes more quickly. Our intention is for Haste to let you "do stuff" more often.

Block Rating - Block is being redesigned to scale better. Blocked attacks will simply hit for 30% less damage. Block rating will improve your chance to block, though overall block chances will be lower than they are today.

Parry - Parry no longer provides 100% avoidance and no longer speeds up attacks. Instead, when you parry an attack, it and the next attack will each hit for 50% damage (assuming they hit at all). In other words, Dodge is a chance to avoid 100% of the damage from one attack, Parry is a chance to avoid 50% of the damage from two attacks, and Block is a chance to avoid 30% of the damage from one attack.

Mastery - This is a new stat that will allow players to become better at whatever makes their chosen talent tree cool or unique. It's directly tied to talents, so what you gain from improving this stat is entirely dependent upon your class and the talent specialization you choose. We'll talk more about specific Mastery benefits in the future.

Armor - The way Armor mitigates damage is not changing, but the Armor stat has been rebalanced to mirror changes to the armor curve in Cataclysm. As a result, bonus Armor will go down slightly overall. We are also changing the mitigation difference among armor types so that plate doesn't offer so much more protection than mail, leather, and cloth.

Resilience - This will only affect damage done by players and critical damage done by players. It will not impact crit chance, mana drains, or other such effects.

Strength, Agility, Hit Rating, Expertise, and Critical Strike Rating - These will all still appear on gear as well. Aside from situations mentioned elsewhere in this list, in general these will function similarly to how they do now, though the details -- such as how much Hit Rating you might need to effectively combat high-level creatures (more on this below) -- are likely to change.


Being Removed from Items


Attack Power - This stat will no longer be present on most items as a flat value, though it will still show up on some process. Strength and Agility, which will be present on items, will grant the appropriate amount of Attack Power (generally 2 Attack Power per point of Strength or Agility) depending upon which stat a particular class favors. Agility may provide less Crit than it currently does.

Spell Power - Spell Power is another stat that you'll no longer see present on most items. Instead, as mentioned above, Intellect will grant Spell Power. One exception is that caster weapons will still have Spell Power. This allows us to make weapons proportionately more powerful for casters in the same way they are for melee classes.

Armor Penetration - This stat will no longer be present on items. Armor Penetration will still exist in talents and abilities.

Shield Block Value - This stat will no longer be present on items, since the amount blocked is always proportional to the amount of damage done. Talents and other effects might still modify the damage-reduction percentage from 30%, however.


Going Away Completely


MP5 - This stat will be removed from the game completely. Holy paladins and Restoration shaman will be redesigned to benefit from Spirit.

Defense - Defense is being removed from the game entirely. Tanking classes should expect to become uncrittable versus creatures just by shifting into Defensive Stance, Frost Presence, Bear Form, or by using Righteous Fury.

Spell Ranks - Spell ranks will cease to exist. All spells will have one rank and will scale appropriately with level. The levels at which you can learn certain spells are being changed in order to fill in some of the gaps, and we will be introducing some new spells to learn along the way as well.

Weapon Skill - This stat will be removed from the game completely. Classes will start with all the weapon skills they need to know and will not need to improve them.


What Else You Should Know


Combat ratings - All ratings will be much harder to "cap out" at maximum gear levels. Ratings will be steeper in Cataclysm, and creatures in later tiers of content will be harder to hit or crit, similar to how level-83 mobs are harder to hit or crit than level-80 mobs.

Reforging - While these changes will go a long way to making a wider variety of stats more attractive, we understand that sometimes you simply don't want more Hit Rating on your gear or you'd rather have more Haste than more Crit. In Cataclysm, we are going to give players a way to replace stats on gear as part of the existing profession system. As a general rule of thumb, you'll be able to convert one stat to 50% of another stat. While some conversions (like converting Stamina to Strength) won't be permitted, the goal is to let you customize your gear more.

Gems - We are changing the gem colors of a few stats as a result of these adjustments. For example, Hit is likely to be blue instead of yellow. We'll have more details on this in the future.
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Re: WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

Postby Dig It » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:18 am

I like a LOT of those changes. I will be attacking this with closer scrutiny as the release approaches.
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Re: WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

Postby uNicedmeMan » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:42 am

Friends don't let friends play massive online multiplayer rpg games.

I do offer addiction support services for a small fee of course.
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Re: WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

Postby Jerrod » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:12 am

I recently started playing again. Dungeon Finder has made the game super friendly for jumping on for an hour and feeling like you actually got something done. I have a hunter that was my main but I am currently leveling a DK (godmode much?). It sounds weird but I actually plan on playing Cataclysm just to see where the story goes with Arthas gone.
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Re: WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

Postby AciDBatH666 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:43 am

I have a 70 Dk, and while I can say that it's way god mode-ish leveling that thing, I feel like it was even more overpowered leveling my ret pally. Get the BOA 2h Axe and go nuts with mobs of 7-10 people. I liked doing it with the Dk tho. The lack of worrying about mana, and the heals from DPS was killer.
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Re: WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

Postby Dig It » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:02 pm

Jerrod wrote:I recently started playing again. Dungeon Finder has made the game super friendly for jumping on for an hour and feeling like you actually got something done. I have a hunter that was my main but I am currently leveling a DK (godmode much?). It sounds weird but I actually plan on playing Cataclysm just to see where the story goes with Arthas gone.

I *love* Dungeon Finder. Such a great way to burn a few hours doing the old Dungeons which were very fun yet didn't require everyone on their A-Game. I was leveling my Mage using it before I stopped again a few months back.
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Re: WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

Postby UpFromTheAshes » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:56 pm

O.o

Disc golf and WoW....the two great vices of my existance....both combined on the same forum. Kudos to you, my friend.

I've played WoW since the day it was released. Scored the 2nd Hand of Ragnaros on the server. These days I'm mostly running 10-man ICC with guildmates I've known since we were running Molten Core. On that note, the single biggest change that has me excited about Cataclysm is the announcement that 10-man raids will have access to the same loot as 25-man raids. No more 2nd class citizen status. Long overdue, IMO.

I've raided extensively in 40-man, 25-man, 15-man, and 10-man raids. You cannot convince me that 25-man is more difficult than 10-man. In fact, I think it's the exact opposite. I think you have a much larger margin of error in 25s than you do 10s. A scrub or two can hide in a 25-man and be carried along. You have a few scrubs in your 10-man and you might not be killing X boss tonight.

That said: let me share my biggest concern among the announced changes. They've stated an intention to make healing "more challenging and/or interesting" (I'm paraphrasing). I think this could backfire on them and result in a massive healer shortage game-wide. It's my opinion that many of people who currently play healers primarily do so exactly BECAUSE it's "easier". I've only ever tanked/dpsed so I can't speak from experience here, but I've been told by healer friends that it's infinitely easier and that you can basically run on autopilot for much of the time. I think it's easier for weaker players to "hide" behind a healer role. If you are a sucky tank, it's obvious. If you are sucky at dps, it's going to show on the meter as everyone outpaces you. I think that healing in it's current state has enough of a built-in "cushion" that a weaker player can get by with it without the raid wiping. If they take away that cushion, I fear those weaker players will be exposed and many will quit healing due to the criticism.
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Re: WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

Postby AciDBatH666 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:35 pm

Well, I dunno about healing being THAT easy.
I started wow 2 months after it came out. I think it was '05. Man that's a long time. I had a Rogue. Seemed like my kinda class. After a while, and I mean A WHILEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeee.... This was back in the day, when people didn't really have alts because just leveling to 60 was tedious. I can't even imagine how long it took me to get to 60. There was lots of times that I'd spend the whole night in SouthShore waves of pvp that I got zero leveling done. Man those were some awesome times.

Anyways, When BC hit, our guild asked if anyone would level shammies for the guild since the alliance would be allotted them. I, along with about 5 other people ditched my main to level a shaman. I lost touch with a lot of the guild, because of the lack of help. Since everyone was doing Hellfire and crap, I got no love and kinda lost touch with a lot of people. I got to about 40, quit for a while then came back. Got to 70, raided a bit with the guild and started my first try at Resto.
I liked it. Part of the reason I created the shaman was because I got tired of playing a class that had absolutely zero benefits to everyone else in the raid. Mages decurse, warriors have group buffs, pallies with kings, yada yada...
ROgues? The most useful I ever felt was when I was the guy suppressing the devices in BWL that slow the guild down. I was the only person with 3/3 Master of Deception (for pvp) so it felt great when the guild finally NEEDED me.

Anyways. So I ditched the rogue, and now I've got a shammy. Elemental, and resto. I loved healing. It was so nice not to have to worry about PECK PECK PECK PECK PECK PECK just adding to my carpal tunnel problems. I used absolutely zero mods for it. Other than an addon to organize my totems.
I found it fun and challenging. I also found a lot of control over the group. If they lose me, they would look for 20 minutes for a replacement. Back in the day when there wasn't Dual specs that is. But it wasn't super easy.
What is easy is Healbot. I JUST Got healbot the other day since I'm doing a lot of Arenas on my holy pally. In a 5 man run, I can sit back and barely do anything. Just lookin at some green bars and push a button like a monkey.
On the shaman I don't use healbot. But the Pally I do in BGs because it's difficult to know who needs heals that's in range of me.
I like heals because it keeps me on my toes. Especially in raids. You have to decide if the Main tank is gonna take a beating for a few seconds while you rescue some retarded mage who can't control his aggro, or you can just let him die. HAHAH.

I agree that the same loot for 10 man and 25 man is needed. Even with my mediocre PVE gear I get turned down for 25 man runs. Which shouldn't be. You're right, 10 mans you don't have that flexibility to fall back on.

2nd Hand of Rag eh? That's very impressive. I remember when a guy on our server got it (top guild on the server).... I logged and my buddy messaged me to get my ass outside of IF. Went and it was like a schoolyard fight. There was about 300 people in a circle around this guy watching him swing it at a priest who just kept healing himself. And everyone was in awe at the bombs he was droppin.
I miss those old days. Now moments like that are few and far between.
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Re: WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

Postby Jsw » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:58 pm

When WoW first dropped, I swore off computer games because I had been so badly addicted to Diablo II/Warcraft III, etc(basically anything that blizzard has ever put out :lol: ). And I knew that if I played WoW, I would never pry myself away from the computer.

Anyway last fall I DL'ed the trial version of WoW just to mess around with a buddy who had a bunch of godly characters. I was surprised by how unimpressed I was with the game. I think I really missed the boat on it. It reminded me of what Diablo II digressed into after a few years of it being out.(AKA Everyone just power leveling/being rushed through stuff - couldn't be bothered to team up, especially at the lower levels. Everyone just basically wanted to get to the highest level so they could do PvP).

I just felt like I spent half my time ground-pounding semi-aimlessly. And all the quests were kind of the same basic formula(find 5x of these, then 4x of these, then return to me for a prize).

I'm sure if I installed the full version and had a group of buddies to play with consistently I would have enjoyed it a bit more, and I anticipated doing so if the trial hooked me, but I actually stopped playing before my trial was even over. :shock:

I'm more excited for for Starcraft II to drop(hopefully sometime later this year), and then Diablo III(but considering how slow Blizzard develops games, I'll probably be collecting social security and too intimidated by computers to purchase the game).

There were cool aspects about the game, but - I kind of wanted to be wow'ed(no pun intended) from jump street - and it failed to deliver. And I'm not really the "casual" style gamer, when I play a computer game, I generally dedicate laughable amounts of my free time to it, much to the distaste of loved ones :)
Last edited by Jsw on Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: WoW and your thoughts on Cataclysm

Postby Jeronimo » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:59 pm

My guild never saw an eye of sulfuron drop. In 132554657657 MC runs we never got a fuckin eye. I'm still pissed and bitter about it. We did get a Thunderfury, both pieces within like 2 weeks. Then we never saw another orange drop again. I was going to get the next thunderfury in the guild too! Dammit. I do remember getting a Bonereaver's Edge back in the day (ended up seeing 5-6 of them before we quit MC). That sucker made PVP a lot of fun. Got me to Marshal.
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