R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

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Re: R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

Postby ILikeBigButts » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:34 am

The Patriot Act is unconstitutional.
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Re: R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

Postby Apothecary » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:20 pm

^this guy knows whats up.

Lulzsec and Barry Cooper are two of my favorite constitutional dissidents/activists.

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Re: R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

Postby cfair » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:34 am

I always laugh whenever people start talking about the legalization of marijuana. Honestly I don't care if its legal or not, frankly it is probably more fun staying illegal. My problem is when people feel like its some massive social injustice that marijuana is illegal. As though they have found and figured out these breaches in human rights and conspiracies against the American people.

Slowly my biggest pet peeve of these arguments are how quickly they talk about alcohol. The problem with people using that in the argument of marijuana is that they're not actually worried about the harmful effects of alcohol. If that was really a concern of such a group then they would seek to have it made illegal. But no... those who want pot legal also want booze legal... but fail to see how using it in their argument legitimizes the attempts at supporting their reasoning...

You have to ask yourself is the legalization of marijuana the cause I want to champion? Is this truly a worthwhile endeavor in the history of humanity? A wrong that must be righteously corrected?

Now mind you there is a large part of me that wants to ask if it is more worth our time than fighting sex trafficking with more than 15,000 people a year brought in the US to be exploited. Or the rampant sale of people throughout all of Asia. The ridiculous amount of atrocities that have existed in Africa since the English set foot there. The mess we, humanity, caused in the Gulf of Mexico. You know what, legalize the weed. After thinking about all the other crap we've messed up, I need a hit.
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Re: R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

Postby Apothecary » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:56 am

Slowly my biggest pet peeve of these arguments are how quickly they talk about alcohol. The problem with people using that in the argument of marijuana is that they're not actually worried about the harmful effects of alcohol. If that was really a concern of such a group then they would seek to have it made illegal.


people did seek to have alcohol made illegal. prohibition happened and was a disaster. people went blind from drinking unregulated bathtub spirits. they were jailed or killed as a result of moving this 'illegal' product. americans saw that banning the substance was creating more harm than good, so congress passed the 21st amendment to the constitution, repealing the failed law.

so the parallel that you seem to be missing is that bad law needs to be corrected. we use alcohol references in our rhetoric because, when viewed through that lens, pot does a whole lot less damage than alcohol on every level and alcohol is regulated and widely available to adults. why isnt pot (the question i would really like cfairs response to focus on)?

Now mind you there is a large part of me that wants to ask if it is more worth our time than fighting sex trafficking with more than 15,000 people a year brought in the US to be exploited. Or the rampant sale of people throughout all of Asia. The ridiculous amount of atrocities that have existed in Africa since the English set foot there. The mess we, humanity, caused in the Gulf of Mexico.


do you know any slaves? i dont.

on the other hand i know literally hundreds of people who have done time for simple possession. you tend to fight back when the battle is brought to your doorstep (as it was in coopers daughters case) .

i know one guy whos a three-striker, in prison for life...and he has never made a victim out of ANYONE. pot laws are antiquated and draconian. cannabis is a schedule-1 drug? really? defining characteristics of a schedule-1 controlled substance is as follows:

(1) Schedule I.—

(A) The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse. no withdrawal symptoms are present in long-term cannabis users when they stop suddenly. i take a month off every year with no ill effects. cannabis is safer than alcohol in this regard.

(B) The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States. the AMA (along with other physicians organizations) argues that there are MANY uses for cannabis in medicine and that cannabis should be dropped from the controlled substance schedule. cannabis does not fit the criteria of requirement B.

(C) There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision." California has had medical pot since 1996 and not a single overdose has been recorded. car accidents as a result of cannabis use (im thinking the anti cannabis commercial where the stoners run over the little girl as they speed away out of the fast-food drive-through) just dont happen. strike three.

so why is cannabis still illegal at the federal level? how did it become illegal in the first place? are you aware of the history of cannabis law cfair?
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Re: R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

Postby jubuttib » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:28 am

Apothecary wrote:how did it become illegal in the first place?
Please, do tell. I haven't really heard or read anything 100% certain, but some sources have said that it was basically a backlash of ending the prohibition (as in "Damnit, we couldn't keep people from drinking... Well, we're going to ban something, that's for damn sure!").
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Re: R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

Postby Apothecary » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:01 am

the final nail in the coffin was anslinger (anslinger was the head of the Bureau of Prohibition, the precursor to the DEA) testified to congress that "...(t)here are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others." that was the straw that broke the camels back and got congress to pass the Marihuana Tax Act in 1937 (de facto prohibition of cannabis).

let me tell you...marijuana does not induce sexual frenzy in white females. that would be hot. i wish it did, but it dont. :lol:

of course there are underlying causes as to why anslinger was compelled to spew such racist vitriol...i will get into that later. i want to know what cfair knows about the legal history of the plant first.
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Re: R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

Postby cfair » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:13 am

Apothecary wrote:people did seek to have alcohol made illegal. prohibition happened and was a disaster. people went blind from drinking unregulated bathtub spirits. they were jailed or killed as a result of moving this 'illegal' product. americans saw that banning the substance was creating more harm than good, so congress passed the 21st amendment to the constitution, repealing the failed law.

so the parallel that you seem to be missing is that bad law needs to be corrected. we use alcohol references in our rhetoric because, when viewed through that lens, pot does a whole lot less damage than alcohol on every level and alcohol is regulated and widely available to adults. why isnt pot (the question i would really like cfairs response to focus on)?


I can see it through that lens and I have. And I want to reiterate that I ultimately don't care if weed is legal or not. What I care about is the importance people give it. So you want me to focus on why isn't pot legal? Bad question, because I'm not fighting against the legalization of pot and your response assumes I am. I don't care. But I will focus on the answer to your own question. "Banning the substance was creating more harm than good." So that's your answer, start doing more harm than good with it. And you'll get your way.

Now mind you there is a large part of me that wants to ask if it is more worth our time than fighting sex trafficking with more than 15,000 people a year brought in the US to be exploited. Or the rampant sale of people throughout all of Asia. The ridiculous amount of atrocities that have existed in Africa since the English set foot there. The mess we, humanity, caused in the Gulf of Mexico.


I sigh here because I forgot to add another part of this that was important but I lapsed and forgot to include it. Now this was not a part of debate, it had to do with when I said "there is a large part of me that wants to ask ..." and then I was going to continue my point and say "But I won't ask that." Now I realize I didn't include that so now I will respectfully respond as best I can to the rest.

Apothecary wrote:do you know any slaves? i dont.

on the other hand i know literally hundreds of people who have done time for simple possession. you tend to fight back when the battle is brought to your doorstep (as it was in coopers daughters case).


When it comes to sex slavery you more than likely have met hundreds of people who have been "trafficked" but that isn't exactly the kind of thing a person runs around telling everyone they've been involved in. Now you say you know hundreds of people as though they are everyday citizens everywhere suffering the injustice of marijuana legislature. I can say something similar "I know hundreds of disc golfers". The thing about statements like this is that it forgets our social bubbles. I spend time playing disc golf getting involved in it, as you do, I met people in it because I do it. Now I don't know a lot of people that are really excited about racquetball. But I bet you if I started playing seriously I'd meet plenty soon enough. You know hundreds of people who have done time for simple possession, I know plenty too. I use to smoke myself. Even when I did I didn't care, at the end of the day, if weed was legal or not. Because its not high on the social injustice list... if its really even on it at all.


Apothecary wrote:so why is cannabis still illegal at the federal level? how did it become illegal in the first place? are you aware of the history of cannabis law cfair?


I know a little but not a lot. But know I'm not going to feel like my eyes were opened to the truth, like I was remotely blind to the travesty of the marijuana user. Now should it be such as serious offense as it is? Maybe not, but I haven't been talking about that. So "are you aware of the history of cannabis law cfair?" you certainly want to make me feel like I don't. But is it so unfortunate that I don't know these things... nah...
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Re: R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

Postby Apothecary » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:46 am

cfair wrote:
Apothecary wrote:people did seek to have alcohol made illegal. prohibition happened and was a disaster. people went blind from drinking unregulated bathtub spirits. they were jailed or killed as a result of moving this 'illegal' product. americans saw that banning the substance was creating more harm than good, so congress passed the 21st amendment to the constitution, repealing the failed law.

so the parallel that you seem to be missing is that bad law needs to be corrected. we use alcohol references in our rhetoric because, when viewed through that lens, pot does a whole lot less damage than alcohol on every level and alcohol is regulated and widely available to adults. why isnt pot (the question i would really like cfairs response to focus on)?


I can see it through that lens and I have. And I want to reiterate that I ultimately don't care if weed is legal or not. What I care about is the importance people give it.


people have to pick their battles. fighting prohibition of a safe substance that makes the day so much more enjoyable to a wide cross section of the american public is a valid fight. are there bigger battles to fight? of course. but i think many americans pick this one because this law is so blatantly unjust that the idea of repealing cannabis prohibition kind of sells itself.

So you want me to focus on why isn't pot legal? Bad question, because I'm not fighting against the legalization of pot and your response assumes I am. I don't care. But I will focus on the answer to your own question. "Banning the substance was creating more harm than good." So that's your answer, start doing more harm than good with it. And you'll get your way.


this reads like jibberish to me. please elaborate.

Now mind you there is a large part of me that wants to ask if it is more worth our time than fighting sex trafficking with more than 15,000 people a year brought in the US to be exploited. Or the rampant sale of people throughout all of Asia. The ridiculous amount of atrocities that have existed in Africa since the English set foot there. The mess we, humanity, caused in the Gulf of Mexico.


imperialism is a motherfucker. no doubt about it. but i know more americans are affected by bad drug policy than are affected by slave trade.

i sigh here because I forgot to add another part of this that was important but I lapsed and forgot to include it. Now this was not a part of debate, it had to do with when I said "there is a large part of me that wants to ask ..." and then I was going to continue my point and say "But I won't ask that." Now I realize I didn't include that so now I will respectfully respond as best I can to the rest.

Apothecary wrote:do you know any slaves? i dont.

on the other hand i know literally hundreds of people who have done time for simple possession. you tend to fight back when the battle is brought to your doorstep (as it was in coopers daughters case).


When it comes to sex slavery you more than likely have met hundreds of people who have been "trafficked" but that isn't exactly the kind of thing a person runs around telling everyone they've been involved in. Now you say you know hundreds of people as though they are everyday citizens everywhere suffering the injustice of marijuana legislature. I can say something similar "I know hundreds of disc golfers". The thing about statements like this is that it forgets our social bubbles. I spend time playing disc golf getting involved in it, as you do, I met people in it because I do it. Now I don't know a lot of people that are really excited about racquetball. But I bet you if I started playing seriously I'd meet plenty soon enough. You know hundreds of people who have done time for simple possession, I know plenty too. I use to smoke myself. Even when I did I didn't care, at the end of the day, if weed was legal or not. Because its not high on the social injustice list... if its really even on it at all.


i would argue that the scale of the problem (see californias unconstitutional prison overcrowding problem) makes this issue much more pertinent than human trafficking. after all...cannabis law makes ordinary, otherwise law-abiding citizens into money making slaves of the prison industrial complex. a different type of human trafficking, but its another case of people being held against their will with the end result of private companies profiting.


Apothecary wrote:so why is cannabis still illegal at the federal level? how did it become illegal in the first place? are you aware of the history of cannabis law cfair?


I know a little but not a lot. But know I'm not going to feel like my eyes were opened to the truth, like I was remotely blind to the travesty of the marijuana user. Now should it be such as serious offense as it is? Maybe not, but I haven't been talking about that. So "are you aware of the history of cannabis law cfair?" you certainly want to make me feel like I don't. But is it so unfortunate that I don't know these things... nah...


you should look into it. its a story of how big business (pharma, textile, newspapers) used inflated racist hysteria to bar the use of a plant that would devastate their profits. this book is an interesting read on the topic.
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Re: R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

Postby uNicedmeMan » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:06 am

I know I'm jumping in late here and haven't read really any of the thread but check out this movie for some insight to the war on drugs.

Much of this is paraphrased from the movie linked above: No matter how you slice it, I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the DEA's drug scheduling is wack and the war at drugs has been, at best, a huge failure. A failure resulting in the US having less than 5% of the world's population and 23% of the worlds prison and jail population with a large portion of the incarcerated being non-violent drug offenders. That is a figure that I am not proud of at all. The war on drugs was originally created to target minorities which is why: 1- incarceration rates jump drastically beginning in the early 70s (Nixon increased drug laws to target minorities after civil rights movements), 2- African Americans make up 40% of the US prison population but only 12.5% of the nations census.

All of that is just talk though, what it comes down to is personal decision. Everyone reacts differently to drugs and why should someone have the authority to tell you which drugs are right for you?
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Re: R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

Postby sunspot » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:11 am

Apothecary wrote:people did seek to have alcohol made illegal. prohibition happened and was a disaster. people went blind from drinking unregulated bathtub spirits. they were jailed or killed as a result of moving this 'illegal' product. americans saw that banning the substance was creating more harm than good, so congress passed the 21st amendment to the constitution, repealing the failed law.


I see where you failed to mention that we wouldn't have NASCAR without Prohibition.
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Re: R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

Postby Apothecary » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:14 am

they shouldve banned nascar when they repealed prohibition.

what a retarded hic sport.
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Re: R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

Postby Parks » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:51 pm

The irony of it all. The moonshine runners would have never turned to organized racing without Prohibition, but the fans need to be drunk to watch NASCAR.
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Re: R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

Postby cfair » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:19 pm

I'm baffled that you would hold marijuana law reformation higher on the rod of injustice than sex trafficking... maybe try a night of research into the subject and see how the abuse of 1 in 4 women and 1 in 6 men is of more concern than "otherwise law abiding citizens."
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Re: R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

Postby Jerrod » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:35 pm

Apothecary wrote:i know one guy whos a three-striker, in prison for life...and he has never made a victim out of ANYONE.


What were the three charges?
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Re: R.I.P. U.S. Constitution

Postby Frank Delicious » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:51 pm

auto-erotic asphyxiation gone wrong, he was charged with three counts of self-rape.
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