Hyzer flips and driving technique

A spot where people can post questions on the Instructional Articles from the site.

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

Hyzer flips and driving technique

Postby didihitatree » Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:09 am

In my mind hyzer=left, anhyzer=right, and flat and low=straight.

Which is also what it says in the nose angle article about what to generally expect from those angles. However the article also shows a "roll curve" which apparently turns right even though thrown hyzer and thrown left.

This kind of boggles my mind. It seems like you would start off left and then hyzer off even more left, leading to a pretty bad shot. In fact, for all three of the pictured shots "hyzer flip" shots, I throw anhyzer. A lot and with an understable disc for right turn (although I'm starting to sail way right more and more often), a little less and with an overstable disc for an S, and almost flat for the "flattened hyzer."

I'm guessing this is because up until now, I haven't had enough power so all discs flew overstable. Thus, I've grown used to using nose angle to prevent left turn. I'm guessing that for the hyzer flip you use discs you can throw understable and use nose angle to prevent RIGHT turn.

Is that correct? And what can I expect in terms of why would it be advantage to throw the same flight pattern hyzer instead of anhyzer?
didihitatree
Noob
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:19 pm

Postby jiwaburst » Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:32 am

a hyzer-flip shot has several advantages over anhyzer shots. But don't think that you have to learn to throw one to get good, some pretty good players dont' use them much (and some use them a lot).

1st, why throw a hyzer-flip instead of an anhyzer? Because hyzer flip doesn't really turn right until it flips, so you have a much shorter distance where a disc is heading right. Less chance for the disc to run away. Especially into a headwind, an anhyzer drive is very hard to control, even more so if you have to throw low.

2nd, hyzer-flip technique is pretty close to the tecnique needed to throw your putters and midranges a long way, so is a good method to focus on when learning how to throw. This is as opposed to throwing fast, overstable drivers already turned, a habbit that can get people to screw up their midrange game.

3rd, hyzer-flip shots go very far, squeezing the lost drop of distance before petering out.

4th, knowing how to flip up a hyzer also gives another element of height control, in that it is easy to throw a driver nose down but have the hyzer action lift it naturally, so that you get heighth without the risk of stalling out and hyzering away, or throwing an anhyzer high and risking it turning and turning.

The disc I think is easiest for learning a hyzer flip shot is a DX shark.

just my two cents from someone who is trying to learn quickly and realized that the game got a lot easier when I decided that a hyzer flip-type shot would be my default throw, until the hole situation forces a different shot.
jiwaburst
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:16 am
Location: central valley, CA

Postby garublador » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:17 pm

Throwing an understable disc with a hyzer and getting it to flatten out will also give you a very straight flight path. To get a straight flight out of a disc you have to throw anhyzer you'll end up needing something overstable to get it to come back reliably. Overstable discs tend to fade a lot so you need them to go way off to the right to get them to end up directly in front of you. If you don't have that kind of room then you're out of luck.

That also means that you need to throw quite a bit farther to compensate for the left to right movement of the disc. Remember, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Most players suggest using the shortest disc possible to execute a shot, so throwing a faster disc anhyzer goes against that priciple. Throwing a slower disc with a hyzer follows that priciple.

It's a good point that most midrange discs and putters need to be thrown with a hyzer to get the best flight out of them, too. It makes sense to be the best with a technique that will allow you to throw the greatest number of discs, especally when most of those discs are the most controlable and the most accurate.

I think you have a misconception about the flight path of a hyzer flip. Most of my hyzer flip shots don't go left at all until they fade. While they do start off with a hyzer angle, they still go straight forward while they are flipping up to flat. Even if they do go left there's usually a bit of movement to the right to compensate, but the total room needed to the left and right is only 5'-10'. All in all it's a really straight flight path.
garublador
Disc Whore
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:37 am
Location: Urbandale, IA

Postby adidadg » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:34 pm

To learn a hyzer flip try using something like a Stratus (the best for it), Eclipse or a stingray, these are all very understable discs. If you throw them at a hyzer angle with a fair bit of power, they should flip over to an anhyzer angle and finish to the right. These kinds of shots can be very useful depending on the hole, especially if you want the shot to fly straight for the first half of its flight, and then turn right (whereas an anhyzer shot will turn right the whole way, which is useful for other situations). Turnovers/hyzer flips are riskier than anhyzers because if you dont get the power to turn the disc over, you can end up waaaaay off course to the left, this is why its important to know your discs. Once you learn it, try it for your distance shots with faster discs like a sidewinder or valkyrie. I find that an orion is also a great disc for this. It is important that you pull the disc through on a straight line (imo this is important for any shot, but particularly for these), just experiment with disc angles and see what works best for you given the amount of power you have. I might have drifted off course but i hope this answers your question.
adidadg
 

Postby Blake_T » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:40 pm

thinking about terms hyzer and anhyzer often should be stripped down to the original definitions:

hyzer = an angle of release where the outside edge of the disc is lower than the inside edge of the disc.

anhyzer = an angle of release where the outside edge of the disc is higher than the inside edge of the disc.

nose angles vary based upon the direction the disc is travelling.

if you throw a hyzer out to the left, the "nose" is to the left of forward. if the disc is tilted down on the outter edge, that is throwing towards the hyzer angle, and will create a throw that is more nose down. similarly , if you pull a hyzer to the right, that pulls the disc towards the exposed flight plate and is more nose up. the more nose down a disc is, the more understable it will fly. you do NOT want the disc to bite into the fade and then try and flatten it (that is a version of an air bounce).

as for hyzer flip shots, there are basically three ways to have a disc flatten.
1) lots of speed/nose down.
2) understable disc with enough speed.
3) off axis torque (e.g. a wrist roll or shoulder dive)

2 and 3 are often likely to have the disc turn over after it reaches flat.

everyone else has already listed the advantages.

main two reasons i prefer hyzer flips:
1) they are the straightest possible flight path
2) most discs are high speed understable nowadays and most conducive to this style.
Blake_T
Super Sekret Technique Jedi
 
Posts: 5824
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 12:44 am
Location: Minneapolis

Postby adidadg » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:50 pm

I guess in my post i was confusing a hyzerflip as being a turnover shot rather than a flattened hyzer as Blake said, but its generally the same concept.
adidadg
 

Postby didihitatree » Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:42 pm

Thanks for the help, everyone.

I guess the thing to do is go out tomorrow and try it. I assume it's just a regular drive as far as throwing motion, except maybe aim slightly left of target. And then just experiment with different nose down/hyzer angles.

I've got a beat-up Xpress and Teebird-L that ought to work. I'll take a few tries with my MRV as well.
didihitatree
Noob
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:19 pm

Postby Weebl » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:04 am

For me, when I was learning a hyzer-flip, I would pull the disc right so it would have enormous amounts of nose up upon release, my only advice is trying to make your wrist open cleanly and to follow through on the same plane you're throwing on.

I remember blake posting a 2 second video where he demonstrated a hyzer, which helped me a shit ton. Now to find it...
Weebl
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1082
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:31 pm
Location: Monterey Bay, California

Postby didihitatree » Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:12 pm

heh. Thanks for reminding me of this thread. So yeah, I've been working on this shot off and on for the last couple of months.

The funny thing is, as I was trying to practice this a friend of mind started throwing this way by accident. It's been useful for seeing how the shot flies. Problem is, he rolls over the disc and shoots it right a lot. Also, his general power is not as good as mine so his hyzer flips don't go as far as my regular drive. He'll throw one and get really frustrated with his distance, and I'm like "No, that was awesome. I want to do that." He doesn't see the potential.

My main obstacle right now is not quite enough flattening. I can get the disc to flatten out, but it takes it a bit too long to get horizontal. By the time it gets flat, there's not enough gas left in the throw. Still, I can see that once it finally gets there, I get a real nice, straight glide, going farther than I'd expect at that stage of flight. Every once in a while, I nail it which is somewhat satisfying but doesn't help my score because I'm not expecting it and blow way past the hole.

I'm not sure what I'm missing. Maybe I just need a bit more snap and/or finer control of release angle?
didihitatree
Noob
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:19 pm

Postby Blake_T » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:07 am

more nose down, more snap, less hyzer angle.
Blake_T
Super Sekret Technique Jedi
 
Posts: 5824
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 12:44 am
Location: Minneapolis

Postby didihitatree » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:34 am

Yeah, that's what I thought and what I've been trying to work on. There's never a magic fix, is there?

I'll keep on plugging away and thanks for the help, as always.
didihitatree
Noob
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:19 pm

Postby Blake_T » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:55 am

magical fix = learn to do it with very beat, very understable discs...

then learn to do it with more power to flatten more stable plastic.
Blake_T
Super Sekret Technique Jedi
 
Posts: 5824
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 12:44 am
Location: Minneapolis

Postby UpFromTheAshes » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:07 am

I've just this week begun practicing this technique after playing for 5 years. I'm very excited about the potential after seeing what I've seen the past few days.

My default backhand (RHBH) drive was a big S curve (flex shot if you prefer). Consequently, older more beat up discs always got relegated to the auxiliary bag since they were no longer stable enough to execute that S curve as well as newer plastic.

However, after trying this hyzer flip technique, it makes me really happy that I never got rid of that old plastic!

I have a well worn 1st run 164g CE Valkyrie that was my first go-to driver when I started playing. Eventually it got to the point where it had very little fade and would generally hold whatever line I put it on. When I throw this thing with a hyzer release, it flips flat and gradually gains altitude. For the last half of it's flight it drifts lazily to the right. And it goes and goes. It outdistances anything that I can S curve.

When I try a hyzer flip with my beat-to-death DX Eagle, it flips flat, but starts rolling right much sooner than the Valk does. It's just too understable.

I've also gotten good results from hyzer flipping a worn Champion Firebird and Champion Orc. Those will flip flat and fly straight and low, sometimes with a bit of fade at the very end (the Orc fades more than the Firebird). I've never seen a disc fly as far while staying so low.

Exciting stuff!
UpFromTheAshes
Noob
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:05 am
Location: The 'Ville
Favorite Disc: 1st run CE Valk

Postby mark12b » Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:38 pm

kudos for resurrecting an old thread instead of starting a new one...

while the eagle *might * be too beat to do anything but rollers, otoh it might still fly ok if you keep working at it. try an extreme hyzer angle, and/or a lot more height. you can also try a wrist roll-under -- basically you press down with the thumb at release.
mark12b
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1177
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:28 pm
Location: Seattle

Postby roman » Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:51 pm

I love to throw the hyzer-flip. I hyzer-flip my wraith to have bullet-straight low line (10-15ft) drives for 400ft. However my most favorite throws involve a slow turnover like the one you described with your Valk. I use beat up new mold champ Beasts for that throw, but I've seen it done just as well with Valkyries and Sidewinders. It's a great throw if you need to go straight for 300 or so feet and then tail off to the right at the end.

The gain in height you get with a good nose down turnover drive is very helpful on some holes as well. There's one hole that I play here that has a low lying branch in front of you, thick brush to the left, and a row of trees to the right. About 275 out the trees on the right give way and another 50 feet to the right and 150ft down is the hole, tucked away behind some bushes. I throw my beat Beast with some hyzer to it, and it gets under that branch and begins to gain height while flipping straight, then at the peak of it's vertical ascent it begins to drift off to the right and then finishing off with a gentle fade at the end not too far from the hole. I can't imagine throwing any other throw for this hole.
roman
Fairway Surgeon
User avatar
 
Posts: 724
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:45 pm
Location: IL

Next

Return to Questions About Articles on Disc Golf Review

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests