Please let me know where I can improve

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Please let me know where I can improve

Postby DiscJay » Mon May 12, 2008 7:30 pm

I've been reading here for 5 or 6 months now and y'all have been really helpful with critiquing others, so here's my vid. I hope you'll all give me some good pointers. I've been playing for about a year and a half off and on, but really just started working on my game a lot more in the past few months. Let me know what i need to improve. Thanks.

http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm28 ... MG0813.flv[url][/url]
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Postby SkaBob » Mon May 12, 2008 8:49 pm

What disc was that, and how far do you normally max out at, distance wise?

At a quick glance, your run up seems to stop just as your actual throwing motion is about to start...

Beyond that it's a little hard to tell much because we can't see what you do after the disc is released.
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Postby rehder » Tue May 13, 2008 12:02 am

Follow through

and it seems that you dont get enough weight forward towards the end of your throw
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Postby JR » Tue May 13, 2008 2:43 am

Welcome to the site.

On a hole as tight as that so early it's a good idea to be throwing at slow speed meaning little power to maintain correct body positioning. For more open holes and for maximum distance throws you have to x step faster tilt your waist more forwards and use the momentum created by the faster x step to push your torso farther forwards for a weight shift that leaves your heart over the right knee as the disc releases. Which requires you to shorten your third step unless you get a lot more speed than that on the video to carry your body over to leaning forward.

In this throw there were a couple bits that can use a bit polishing. Overall it wasn't too bad especially for someone having played the amount you have. Your left arm could touch your left leg or be on the stomach as you pivot in the third step. A foot shorter 3rd step would be closer to the truth than your current one at that x step speed and lack of forward momentum.

Your elbow lead is fine already but if I saw correctly the disc half an inch closer to the body while it's passing the chest and extending the elbow towards the target as far as it'll go before chopping the elbow would give even better results. Chopping is something you really need to do. Meaning for distance and spinning of the disc you need to stay about as slow and relaxed in the arm effort as you did on this video until the disc passes the right pec then chop the elbow very fast. And just before the disc rips out of your hand the acceleration should increase even more. Doing that it'd be great if you also could twist your hips and shoulders too. The hip twist should start earlier but should be still continuing twisting and the shoulders should be turning fast beginning momentarily before the elbow starts to chop.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Postby black udder » Tue May 13, 2008 8:32 am

I'd see if you can't get a video of you out in a field throwing a little farther. This looks like a relaxed throw, which is good, but it doesn't appear that the throw was intended to be a long one.

Observations that could be different if you throw differently for distance.

1) Left arm is flailing. Try and keep that to your side.
2) No lower body power going into the throw - it's all arm.
3) No finish - your momentum stops at release
4) You could be over your plant leg more

The disc does look like a nose down release, so that's positive. It also looks like you're throwing under control - another positive.
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Postby MR. WICK » Tue May 13, 2008 9:07 am

Accelerate at the finish and get your weight forward. It looks like you are stopping abruptly at the finish.
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Postby DiscJay » Tue May 13, 2008 4:21 pm

Thanks for all the replies everyone, I really do appreciate it.

SkaBob- That disc was a Tee Bird and I can usually max out around 300 feet with that disc. I'm working on getting out to a field and getting some better video with the full follow through and some distances on the throws to put with the videos. Thanks again for your critique.

rehder- I'll work on more of a follow through and more weight forward(and that's actually a lot more weight forward than I had been recently, lol)

JR- Thanks for the welcome and thanks for all the advice. (And I thought I had sped up my x step a lot, lol). I'll work on everything you said there...x-step, weight forward, disc closer to chest, elbow further forward before the chop, etc.) I really appreciate all this advice.

black udder- I'm going to get out to a field with a buddy and get some better videos of throws for more critique. It was a semi relaxed throw as the hole was 231 i believe and that throw went about 200. I'll work on keeping the left arm in. I guess if i can get my weight forward that should help get the lower body more into the throw and more of a finish. We'll see how it goes.

The Natural-Thanks, I'll work more on the finish. Oh yeah, where are you in CT? I used to live in South Glastonbury.

Once again, thanks to all of you for the great feedback.
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Postby black udder » Tue May 13, 2008 8:48 pm

Here's something to try - grab a handful of putters/midranges and stand still in a field (or open space - just no children or objects to hit).

Reach back around shoulder height and pull through in a relaxed manner. Focus on keeping the disc close to your chest and make sure that you still have the disc crooked in your arm when it's past your right pec.

At this point, your elbow will chop open and your disc will flick around. Your wrist should naturally curl in as you pass the right pec (to keep it close to your chest) and as you chop, your wrist will flip out/extend.

don't try to throw far, just try and get the feeling. Pull across your chest as level as you can and try and keep your wrist down. Most important is the focus on close to the chest.

You should feel the catapult of the disc and a nice pop of snap. If you do, practice that until you can do it standing still every time. Then add your x-step. If you try and throw far, you'll probably focus on far instead of close to your chest. Keep practicing until you can get that pop with some power and then you'll have something.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Tue May 13, 2008 9:16 pm

You need to do some throwing from a one step.

You need to learn how to hit hard and fast from a push off of your rear leg. You are not driving you hip open with you rear leg at all. In fact, your X step is not providing any spring into the hit at all.
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Postby DiscJay » Wed May 14, 2008 5:25 am

Black Udder- I'll give that a try. Thanks again for the feedback

Bradley Walker- I'll work on that as well.

All this advice is great everyone. Thanks. I should improve quickly with all this advice.
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New Video

Postby DiscJay » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:15 pm

I got some new video of a few practice throws at my local course. They are a little dark, but not bad. Hope it looks like I've been practicing and taking all your advice, because I have.

I didn't really have any way to measure the distances on these throws, but they were all pretty long for me. The first one with the green disc(173 Avenger SS) was the longest. The third, yellow disc(Z Flash) was the second longest and only short of the first throw by about 10 feet.

If I had to guess, the first throw was about 300 feet.

I hope y'all can throw some more advice and critiques my way. Thanks again for all your help.

http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm28 ... f_0001.flv

Also, if you have any tips on how to videotape throws, I would be grateful for those as well.
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Postby SkaBob » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:23 pm

Your throw is improving, your third throw looked like the best throw of the new video. Much better arm speed and accelleration on that one.

A couple things I noticed:

your timing seems off to me, still. It's better, but it's still looking like plant, pull, throw. it should be more like plant and pull simultaneously.

You're not pivoting on your plant foot. This is robbing you of some rotation (which will get you extra distance), and if I remember correctly can do some serious damage to your knee.

For your next videos, see if you can get the video from 90 degrees to the left of the tee-pad, so we can see your throws from the side you're facing as you throw them.
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Postby JR » Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:15 am

SkaBob wrote:Your throw is improving, your third throw looked like the best throw of the new video. Much better arm speed and accelleration on that one.

A couple things I noticed:

your timing seems off to me, still. It's better, but it's still looking like plant, pull, throw. it should be more like plant and pull simultaneously.

You're not pivoting on your plant foot. This is robbing you of some rotation (which will get you extra distance), and if I remember correctly can do some serious damage to your knee.

For your next videos, see if you can get the video from 90 degrees to the left of the tee-pad, so we can see your throws from the side you're facing as you throw them.


I'd still start slower than you're doing now with the initial part of the arm pull.

The timing difference between the plant and pull isn't large and I've done things the same that you do lately before I was forced to throw standing still throws. To me it seems easier to get weight forward like that and for whatever reason helps to delay the late acceleration and focus by effort with my arm for good acceleration late in the throw. Helps a lot with the wrist.

I don't think I've seen anyone x step their left leg so much closer to the right side of the tee compared to where the right leg is. That ensures that you throw a hyzer but it also makes it difficult and inefficient to twist your hips to the right powerfully which is something you need to concentrate on. Also pivoting on the right foot isn't helped by pushing with the left leg from such an odd angle. Do you tend to miss left? Now you know why if that occurs. The x step should land right beside your right foot and push hard on the left foot. Combine that with a hard twist in the hips and you'll see more D. That'll also help with not stepping through the throw. After you plant tighten all of the muscles in your right leg quite hard and combine it with a hard push off of the left leg and you should stop walking through your throw. You should pivot around the right foot which adds more spin on the disc and some speed too. Free D :-)

You relax your arms and shoulders in your pre throw routine which is great. You lose the advantages in the reach back. At least it seems to me that you punch the disc back tightening your muscles. Ask me how I know :-( When you start to move the disc forwards it seems you're straining too much and bulging your muscles being tight. It shows as a non smooth uneven motion of the upper torso, shoulders and left arm from farthest back position of reach back to where the elbow starts to chop.

I'd like you to try the following exercise that helped me a lot in late power focus and acceleration which in turn made my wrist perform a lot better for greater spin on the disc. For more straightness and distance on drives.

Empty your bag by throwing from stand still keeping your muscles absolutely relaxed except gripping tight enough to not allow the disc to slip early. Don't try to power the throw hard. Think of approach power. The funny thing is that being so loose in the muscles makes your arm move faster without trying to. It's the opposite of what one might think. The distance should definitely be above approach throws. Putting more power in makes you throw shorter if it's being attempted by bulging tensioning the muscles like you try to lift something. This is a different motion so apples to oranges.

That's how basic laws of physics can fool you when it doesn't take into account human physiology which muddies up things. You shouldn't loose a lot of D compared to your x stepped throws. Once you gain the confidence that you can throw quite far with being very mellow saving considerable energy by being so mellow you can slowly start to build up muscle tension in the chop. It's easy to start to bulge your muscles from the reach back. Immediately when you notice that revert back to less attempted power. You absolutely need to stay ultra mellow in the early part of the arm pull until the chop. When the elbow starts to unbend there you can rip it as hard as you can.

I don't mean striking a pose like body builders but punching forward as quick as you can. That certainly results in the muscles tightening but not like you're attempting to lift weights for a new personal record. You mustn't think of forcing your muscles to bulge. That's too much tension and wrongly placed attention for conscious effort. You must think of quickness of motion and the muscles will do the work for you automatically. Without conscious effort.

You don't need to think of inhaling and exhaling. Let the body do what it can without micro managing. It'll only mess up your power generation and form.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Postby DiscJay » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:45 pm

SkaBob- Thanks....I'll work on the timing. I think I was so worried about getting the chop working better that I didn't pay enough attention to the timing. I think JR may be right about my x-step being too spread out to allow for much rotation...I will be working on that. And I'll get the camera out to 90 degrees next time. Thanks again for all your advice.

JR- Thanks for the advice. I guess my chop needs more work to be slower at first then accelerate later...makes sense. I'll work more on the x-step as i now see the big separation between the left and right foot.
I did some work on the x-step tonight when i got home to keep the left and right closer together and I see what you are talking about. I feel like I'm getting more hip rotation with the closer steps. I'll work on that while actually throwing tomorrow after our club mini. My buddy should be bringing the video camera again.
I noticed what you are talking about with the muscle tension..good catch. I'll work on more relaxation during the actual throw.

Thanks again to everyone for all the great advice, I've already dropped my average score at my local course by about 6 or 7 throws. This is a great site full of awesome people.
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Postby JR » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:07 pm

DiscJay wrote:SkaBob- Thanks....I'll work on the timing. I think I was so worried about getting the chop working better that I didn't pay enough attention to the timing. I think JR may be right about my x-step being too spread out to allow for much rotation...I will be working on that. And I'll get the camera out to 90 degrees next time. Thanks again for all your advice.

JR- Thanks for the advice. I guess my chop needs more work to be slower at first then accelerate later...makes sense. I'll work more on the x-step as i now see the big separation between the left and right foot.
I did some work on the x-step tonight when i got home to keep the left and right closer together and I see what you are talking about. I feel like I'm getting more hip rotation with the closer steps. I'll work on that while actually throwing tomorrow after our club mini. My buddy should be bringing the video camera again.
I noticed what you are talking about with the muscle tension..good catch. I'll work on more relaxation during the actual throw.

Thanks again to everyone for all the great advice, I've already dropped my average score at my local course by about 6 or 7 throws. This is a great site full of awesome people.


Cool! You shouldn't experience the long two steps back and then three forwards cycle with the leg placement that is the norm in DG.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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