More Wrist Stuff

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More Wrist Stuff

Postby Aaron_D » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:44 am

I was always one to cock my wrist before the pull. As an experiment I tried opening my wrist a lot during the pull before I actually began moving my arm. I could really feel the snap! If you are throwing with a closed wrist becuase it feels stronger like I was...STOP. Open your wrist and allow it to close naturally ass you pull. It has really helped me. I cant believe I was throwing with a closed wrist for so long. Blake even told me to open it up at the hit (wrist extension) but what I really needed to do was open it before the hit. Try it and lemme know if it helps your throw as much as it did mine. Caution...if youve been throwing with a closed wrist it will feel very unnatural.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:27 am

That is correct.

You could use the Fling and see that. If you do not try to open your wrist actively, you will never overcome the centrifugal force of your arm swing.
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Postby MrTasses » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:21 pm

Bradley Walker wrote:That is correct.

You could use the Fling and see that. If you do not try to open your wrist actively, you will never overcome the centrifugal force of your arm swing.


I'll drink to that. Found a disc that I don't use and built a 'Patent Pending Fling' over the weekend. It's even more useful than I would have suspected.
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Postby SnowFire » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:49 pm

whats the fling?
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Postby Decoy » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:25 pm

That's a great tip, can't wait to try it.

Its funny, recently I've been working on all wrist and elbow stuff....doing basically the opposite of this. I know you had a bomb before this, how much more D has this given you?

I'm a little confused tho, are you now reaching back with more of a wrist neutral position, allowing the forward motion right after the reach back to close your wrist, and then forcing it open earlier than normal?

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Postby mark12b » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:58 pm

SnowFire wrote:whats the fling?


see video:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/vi ... 55&start=0

edit: decoy already linked to the video... but the discussion is good too.
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Postby Aaron_D » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:09 pm

ok so I was messing with this even more just now and the key is staying loose in the wrist. You physically cannot be loose in the wrist if you are cocking it as much as I was. So in the end the real enemy is tension. I always knew that sometimes I just could not feel snap and on these days I struggled to push discs out more than 360-380. I think wrist tension was largely to blame. Keeping my wrist loose also helps me keep my grip loose which is key for me. I know that sounds wrong, but I guess I was just gripping WAY too hard before by default. I really needed to relax my grip and loosen my wrist. Its really the only way Ive found to harness and really focus on snap. If you are having a good snap day, you dont have to throw very hard at all to get good D. I think this pop off the hand is crucial to learn before you start messing around with x/shuffle step, hips or anything really.
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Postby SnowFire » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:32 pm

Sweet thanks. tried searching for it. must have gave up to early.
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Postby Dale » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:06 pm

This is what I have been experiencing! If I uncock my wrist to start, my wrist bends back some from the force of the pull forward, and this gives me my snap and keeps the nose down.

I videotaped myself, and if I don't uncock my wrist to start, my wrist rolls inward from the force of my arm moving forward. I've tried and tried to start with an inward curled wrist, with terrible results. I have to uncock my wrist to keep it down and to prevent wrist roll.

For me the trick is in finding the right amount of tension to keep the wrist from being too loose, but not so much tension that it won't bend back some when I pull forward.
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Postby Dale » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:12 pm

If you do not try to open your wrist actively, you will never overcome the centrifugal force of your arm swing.+


This seems to fly in the teeth of what has been said on several recent threads. It is my understanding that some posters say that you don't uncock the wrist actively, but let it uncock as it whips in an arc. Did I misunderstand?

When I throw forehand, I VERY actively snap my wrist during my throw.

Do any of you backhanders do that?
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Postby Aaron_D » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:23 pm

You actively open it. But you dont actively cock it before the pull. If you arent loose in the wrist and grip it will be hard or impossible to get good tendon bounce/snap. I read that harder grip = farther throw a long time ago on here and while it is totally true I was misled into gripping my discs really hard during the pull...this led to all sorts of grip problems. Stay loose, but not too loose. Im going to be doing some more vids and Ill try and get creative with camera angles to see if I can capture any of this.
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Postby JR » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:58 am

Both ways of allowing the wrist to move work better than an unmoving wrist. I have little experience with it but I think actively opening the wrist gives more D. Both wrist movement ways do require correct timing and loose enough wrist to add spin to the disc.

Regarding grip strength Blake said a loose grip naturally tightens towards the end of the throw and vice versa. Or something like that.

I've definitely had my share of grip problems. I need to try loose pinky almost, as loose a ring finger and still quite loose middle finger with an initially loose and in the end very tight index and thumb. I was in the middle of training this when my ankle got twisted.

I changed to two finger power grip for great looseness of the wrist. The best ever. But with the amount of throwing I did lately it hurt the outermost joints of index and middle fingers. It doesn't feel like it but I'm afraid the disc slips early for me with two finger grip. Need more high speed videos of me. The weather prevents it now because the whole week's rainy. If the disc slips and I can't improve tightening the grip in the end it's more power grip training for me.
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Postby JR » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:20 am

Aaron_D wrote:If you are having a good snap day, you dont have to throw very hard at all to get good D.


The looser the wrist the less arm speed and more importantly acceleration you need. It's stupendous how much more acceleration and speed there needs to be in the throw for the slightest increase in muscle tension.

I wouldn't wonder if everyone is able to lock up their wrist bad enough by tensioning their forearm too much. Creating too high acceleration demands. One has to be very lopsidedly full of quick cells and without power in the muscles used to squeeze the disc in the hand and fingers.

I seriously implore everyone to try to start throwing with as little muscle tension in the upper arm you can with only enough tension in the forearm, hand and fingers to keep the disc in the correct orientation. You wouldn't believe without witnessing it first hand how much _faster_ your arm moves with loose muscles vs trying to huck far by consciously guiding your muscles. Whether you realize it or not I believe that's the case when one tries to throw hard.

One does need to pinch the index finger and thumb hard in the end and try to stop the wrist from moving either straight handshaking position or 10-15 degrees opened to the right for hyper spin. Then there's a lot of muscle tension in the forearm, fingers and hand. But by that time your arm is moving really fast -faster than usual I'd say and there muscling helps to keep the acceleration going. Where's that you might ask. Not sure but around when the elbow is straight and the wrist is beginning it's opening. Maybe a bit earlier if the disc starts to slip early unless that can be countered by a little more initial grip strength.

People are different so everyone needs to find their own optimal grip strength, muscle tension, timing of tensioning grip and the onset of starting to really use muscle power for acceleration after the hit.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Postby black udder » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:08 pm

I've discovered pulling tighter to the chest (and keeping the disc tight until after it passes the right pec) promotes the snap. I just keep my wrist neutral on the pull through and it cocks as it passes my right pec, then snaps open when my arm extends.

As for the grip, I'm focusing more on the index finger/thumb pinch and using the others to support. Basically, not a super tight grip with anything but the index finger/thumb. I can do that and keep a really loose wrist (I cannot keep a loose wrist gripping with all fingers tightly).

For me, the let down is that I can throw well standing, but once I x-step, I fall into old habits and end up not keeping the disc close all the way through and losing the snap.

For me, the snap really hasn't increased my max distance, but it does allow me to throw my putters further and more accurately and my drivers further standing still. I like throwing my 150g drivers from standing position around 250-300' instead of trying to x-step. I can toss a 150g teebird around the upper 200's standing still, but I can't do the same with a 16x teebird.

Next will be to continue working on nose down and pulling in a straight line to improve my max distance with an x-step.

I would also add that hip rotation is a simple thing to add to a standing throw and can pay off quite a bit.
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Postby geoloseth » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:04 pm

Black Udder- If your having trouble getting it all to work together with your xstep, like I did, just remember it helps to slow your xstep WAY down when trying new things. This helps you concentrate on what you're doing. Once it becomes comfortable then slowly increase your xstep speed.
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