Backing into branches?

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Backing into branches?

Postby Grayson » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:56 pm

Can you back into to branches or bushes that are in front of your marker so that you have an unobstructed shot? Say you threw your disc in the woods about a foot deep, and you mark your disc, are you allowed to move these branches? and to what extent.

Usually I have no problem with this, but this weekend at our local mini, a guy on my card threw his shot about three feet deep into the woods. He's a big guy, so he just backed and backed and backed and gathered all the braches between him and his marker till he basically moved the edge of the woods a couple feet back. He didn't break any branches, and there was just alot of foliage supported by his back. Seemed a little unfair since the basket sits right by the woods, so instead of being paying for overthrowing on his drive, he had a rather simple 15ft putt, albeit with a lot of tension from support all those branches.
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Postby nickster9224 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:28 pm

i think you can as long as they dont break.
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Postby geoloseth » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:30 pm

Chuck Kennedy might have to answer this one. I don't have my rulebook in front of me, but I would have to say that as long as he didn't break any branches in taking his stance then he should be ok. As I recall you are allowed to move objects around your lie as your body displaces them to take your stance. I would consider what he did to be cheap in that some of the foiliage was in front of his lie and that he moved it by his actions of taking his stance.

I would like to see the rules say that his actions were illegal but I'm not sure that the is anything specifically forbidding it in thisparticular situation.
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Postby rehder » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:19 am

I would warn him of the violation and ask him to take a LEGAL stance.
You are not allowed to back into branches to move them out of the way. You must attempt to take a stance that results in the least moving of branches and the like.

803.05 Obstacles and Relief
A. Obstacles to a Stance or Throwing Motion: Players must choose a stance which results in the least movement of any part of any obstacle except as allowed for casual obstacles by 803.05 C. No relief is granted from park equipment (such as signs, trash cans, picnic tables, etc.) as they are considered part of the course. Once a legal stance is taken, a player may not move an obstacle (or hold it back or bend it) in order to make room for a throwing motion. It is legal for a player’s throwing motion to make incidental movement of an obstacle.
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Postby Grayson » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:29 am

That's what I saw in the rule book as well, but it still seemed somewhat vague or ambiguous. It seems like it shouldn't be legal to move anything that is in front of your marker. I would liken it to throwing under a picnic table. you wouldn't be able to move the picnic table back and sit on it while you throw, why should you be able to do it with bushes or branches that are in front of your marker?

I didn't call the guy out on it, mainly because he's deaf and I didn't wanna go through the trouble. I back into woods all the time, but it feels like cheating. It'd be nice to have this cleared up for future reference.
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Postby Bruce » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:25 am

Rehder missed off part B of the rule:

B. Obstacles Between the Lie and Hole: A player may not move, alter, bend, break, or hold back any part of any obstacle, including casual obstacles, between the lie and the hole, with one exception: A player may move obstacles between the lie and the hole that became a factor during the round, such as spectators, players’ equipment, open gates, or branches that fell during the round. Where it is not known if an obstacle has become a factor during a round, it shall not be moved. It is legal for a player’s throwing motion to make incidental movement of an obstacle.

So what he did is completely illegal.

I always approach my lie from the back if possible, or the side if not. If my disc is 4 feet into brambles, I'll go in 3 feet to one side of my disc, then sideways in an L shape.
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Postby Disc Golf Live » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:56 am

Illegal.

Totally.

Unprecedented?

Hardly.

He should have approached his mark from behind if he was playing by the rules.

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Postby Chuck Kennedy » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:09 am

Technically, you can't back in. Even if you come from the back or side, you are supposed to take the stance with the least movement of the living items around the lie. In many cases, this might mean lying on the ground. However, most players in the group won't require that nor will the player actually do that even if they should.

A veteran "trick" related to this is when you're looking for your disc in an area with high weeds or brush. If I think of it, I overshoot where I think the disc is and search zig-zagging back toward the likely location. That way, I might have reduced the height of some of the foliage in front of my potential lie when found.
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Postby black udder » Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:32 pm

I'll admit that I back into bushes like that, but I don't support any branches or bend them - just back in because sometimes, it's easier to get behind the lie that way.

I believe that's legal, just not holding branches back.
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