Hi guys! A few questions...

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Hi guys! A few questions...

Postby Hightower » Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:29 am

Hi there. I'm new to the forums, so I'll give you a little background.

I've been playing for a couple years now, just with my friends now and then. I haven't really played with anyone who knows what they're doing, so I don't understand the terminology - I probably couldn't tell you the difference between hyzer and anhyzer, or what "turn" or "snap" means.

I bought a DX gazelle as my first disc, and when I broke that I used a cheetah. I found that they fly almost exactly the same for me. When the cheetah broke I used some no-name brand mid-range driver my girlfriend bought at target. And surprisingly enough it flew pretty similarly to the other two discs. I usually throw very straight, low-flying drives. I find it easy to throw left-curving throws with these disks and somewhat harder to throw right-curving.

When the target disc broke I bought a DX eagle after trying out my friend's champion eagle. Now this disc flew differently for me. If I don't throw it hard it makes a heavy left curve, whereas the previous discs flew pretty straight regardless. When I do throw it hard I get my usual low-flying line drive, but I find I get more distance than I did with the cheetah/gazelle. I also find I have a very hard time intentionally throwing a right-curving shot with the eagle, although sometimes (usually on longer shots where I'm trying to put the most power into my throw), the disk will start straight and spin off to the right.

As for what types of throws I use, I almost always backhand. I have a lot of trouble accurately throwing sidearm, so I rarely bother with it. I also do what I've sometimes heard referred to as a "tomahawk" - overhand throw with the thumb on the inside rim of the disc. I use this throw in heavily-wooded, short holes where I think I'm probably going to hit a tree trying to throw a straight shot. I either release high and try to throw over the tree if possible, or trust to luck, release low, and many times the disc will weave around several trees and find its way through. I'm sure the tomahawk more than anything is responsible for breaking so many discs! My (red) DX eagle turned white at the rim after the first time I nailed a tree this way (lol)! Oh, and interestingly enough I find that when I tomahawk the eagle it flies very differently from the cheetah/gazelle. It tends to flip over upside down and veer off to the right - whereas the other discs would keep a much straighter and more predictable path. Not sure if that's important, but I thought I'd mention it.

Well, now I broke my eagle so it's time for something new. I checked the innova site and saw a chart that divided up the various types of discs. All of the discs I've used thus far fell into the "fairway driver" category. So I thought I might try a "distance driver". I thought why not go for the most dramatic difference and get a star wraith just to see how it flies?

So what do you more-experienced players think from what I've told you? Any tips/advice? Recommend any discs for me? Anything else you want to say? I'm all ears - err eyes, or whatever.

Oh, and just thought to add this as well. My throwing distance tends to be probably around 175-200' on an average drive? And I don't know if any of you are familiar with the Newport News park course in VA, but my personal best here is uhh -10 (beginner scoring). Translates into a -3 if played all par 3, but I don't use the advanced tees due to my relatively short drives.

Any input is appreciated, and sorry if any of this is repeats of the same questions every noob asks. I'll be reading through the forums.

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Postby Thatdirtykid » Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:54 am

the tomahawk w/ your thumb in the rim is a thumber, w/ your fingers in the rim is in the rim is a tomahawk.

makes sense the eagle would not perform as well at slower speeds because it is a faster disc than the others mentioned. and shouldnt turn right too easily for you yet.

its obvious you are serious about learning how to play, I tend to reccomend a setup similar to this for most people I introduce to the game who have experience throwing discs.

a driver:
for you sounds like the eagle (DX plastic) would be a good distance driver.
a shorter control driver to compliment the eagle: a DX cheeta would work ok, right, left and straight.
midrange, Discraft buzzz in d or mabey x would be a good neutral mid
and any neutral putter that feels good in your hand (avoid overstable, or left turn, putters) whatever feels best in your had between avair p&a, magnet, mabey a stable putter like a avair-x, or wizard.\

remember half the fun is learning what you like by trying alot.

read the other posts in the forum, alot should be helpful, especially w/ explaining the terms and such
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Postby twmccoy » Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:56 am

How are you breaking all these discs?

Certain discs are made to hyzer (fade left) more than others. A gazelle and cheetah are very neutral and will fly straight even on low power throws. The eagle is more overstable and takes more power to throw straight. Also, it sounds like you need some champion discs since you keep trashing the DX ones. You might want to try a valkyrie if the eagle is too much for you.
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Postby Hightower » Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:15 am

Thanks for the replies guys.

Yeah, I dunno how I break so many discs. I mean, I guess it's probably natural for a beginner to just try and throw as hard as he can - it took awhile for my first disc to break, but when it did the damn thing split completely in two! The simplest explanation is that I'm throwing these discs hard into trees at times (not intentionally, of course), and they just can't take it for very long!

Are the champion or star discs a lot more durable? I've heard they are, but they also cost twice as much! So I guess what I'm asking is, if I start buying these types of discs is it going to be worth it? Or will they just last a little longer and still end up breaking?

I'm also such a noob that I've never bothered trying to use putters. I take 1 disc with me onto the course and I use it for everything. It wasn't a problem with the gazelle and cheetah. They seemed to perform reasonably well for drives, approach, and putts. The eagle is better for drives, not as versatile for approach, and absolutely sucks for putting!

So yeah, anyway, I think that it might be a good idea to do like you say and get a good putter - maybe an aviar or a magnet? I hear they're good. Then maybe something similar to the gazelle and cheetah (do they still make those? is there a similar disc you'd recommend?). And either stick with the eagle for drives or maybe try out a valkyrie (what about the "orc"? 'cause I saw those at a nearby store so I wouldn't have to order it online) to see what a higher speed disc can do in my hands (I'm hoping the trees will break before the disc does!).

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Postby swel304 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:53 am

if your max average drive is 200 you wont throw an orc or wraith as far as the eagle. pro/champ plastic is alot more durable, more expensive, and harder to throw because it has alot less grip than dx. Sounds like you should get a dx eagle for long drives, dx roc for mids, and your choice of putter (i use a rhino but my local course is usually pretty windy) you may also find that you put fine with the roc and only need two discs. At any rate, the more discs you use, the slower each one will wear out and break. I started this summer at about the same range you have now, bought an orc and a wraith, they both are sitting in my closet barely used. Read all the instruction articles, refer to them often, and dont move to higher speed discs till you outgrow the ones you have.
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Postby krusen » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:14 am

Hightower,
I would stay away from the higher speed discs like the Wraith and Orc for now. They are only recommended for players that can throw 325' or more with discs that you have been using. They will likely hook harder left than the eagle.

They do make gazelle's in champ plastic, but it will hook left harder than the DX plastic. I'd recommend a champ leopard.
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Postby swel304 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:31 am

I do carry one champ disc (leopard) specifically for shots that im likely to hit a tree as it barely leaves a mark on the disc. If your wanting ce plastic and not worried about the graphic print check out gottagogottathrow.com and search for xout, you can get them for about 10$ each.
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Postby Hightower » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:47 am

So how do you know if you've "outgrown" a disc? Is it when you start throwing right-curving shots unintentionally? That started happening with the gazelle/cheetah - I'd throw level, it'd fly straight, and then spin off to the right and I started having difficulty throwing left-curving shots without seriously slowing down my throw or tilting the angle of the disc. I'm not at that point with the eagle yet, but I am starting to see some of those shots that spin off to the right - like I said, it's pretty common on longer, open holes where I really try to let loose and throw long. And it's already very difficult for me to throw a left-curving shot when I throw hard - the eagle just flies straight as an arrow.

The trouble is, although I have increased my average distance noticably (it's a lot more common that I land within fairly easy putting range off the drive on <200' holes), I'm not seeing any dramatic gains. I know my technique must suck, because I see guys who have been playing less time than I have getting substantially greater distance.

I also notice that initially I had trouble getting the eagle to fly straight. I found out that it was the nose-angle. So I started compensating by swinging my arm downward at the end. It took a little getting used to, but it worked.

So, 2 questions here: How do I know when to try a faster disc? And from what I've told you about my throws, any advice on obvious areas to improve on?

It's a little frustrating, you know? I'm breaking a lot of discs, so the power must be there! But I throw shorter than some of these guys who look like they're barely trying because my technique sucks!

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Postby Eric O » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:51 am

Instead of swinging your arm downwards have you tried getting more nose down using your wrist? Usually the faster the disc, the more nose down required for a good flight, so that explains why the Eagle would require some adjustment going from slower discs.
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Postby coogs » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:57 am

I'll answer what I can, and leave the rest up to those that know what they're talking about.


Hightower wrote:So how do you know if you've "outgrown" a disc? Is it when you start throwing right-curving shots unintentionally? That started happening with the gazelle/cheetah - I'd throw level, it'd fly straight, and then spin off to the right and I started having difficulty throwing left-curving shots without seriously slowing down my throw or tilting the angle of the disc. I'm not at that point with the eagle yet, but I am starting to see some of those shots that spin off to the right - like I said, it's pretty common on longer, open holes where I really try to let loose and throw long. And it's already very difficult for me to throw a left-curving shot when I throw hard - the eagle just flies straight as an arrow.


I had the same question, so check this post: http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/vi ... php?t=1114

The trouble is, although I have increased my average distance noticably (it's a lot more common that I land within fairly easy putting range off the drive on <200' holes), I'm not seeing any dramatic gains. I know my technique must suck, because I see guys who have been playing less time than I have getting substantially greater distance.


How long have you been practicing/playing? Nothing comes dramatically in this sport, rather, it comes at a very measureable and methodic pace. The good news is, though, once you've achieved that goal it tends to stick!


So, 2 questions here: How do I know when to try a faster disc? And from what I've told you about my throws, any advice on obvious areas to improve on?


I wouldn't try the extremely fast discs until you can throw a midrange and your putter over 250'. Doing so helps you focus on your form rather than over or undercompensating for poor form with faster discs. With proper form comes the ability to throw the faster discs.

It's a little frustrating, you know? I'm breaking a lot of discs, so the power must be there! But I throw shorter than some of these guys who look like they're barely trying because my technique sucks!


Oh how I do know! I leave the mechanics explanation up to Blake or someone else who knows it better, but just keep working. Those guys that look like they're barely trying probably have very good form and are using only 80% of their power. Proper form is much more important than trying to muscle or overpower the disc. The disc will fly truer and further (most of the time :lol: ).
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Postby Eric O » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:04 pm

coogs wrote:How long have you been practicing/playing? Nothing comes dramatically in this sport, rather, it comes at a very measureable and methodic pace. The good news is, though, once you've achieved that goal it tends to stick!
I wish that were more true. I have had days where all of a sudden I have near an extra 50 ft on my drives. Then as suddenly as it was there it was gone the next day.

Have also witnessed this in others. The positive side is sooner or later one can identify where the gains come from and eventually repeat it consistantly.
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Postby Solty » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:07 pm

coogs wrote:.....Proper form is much more important than trying to muscle or overpower the disc. The disc will fly truer and further (most of the time :lol: ).


well stated!! I tell alot of the novice people to learn to let the disc do what it does best.....and that is fly and glide. Don't be a torque monkey. My uncle is 53 yrs old and can air out an old proline beast about 325' any day of the week....when he throws...its looks like slow motion. There is no explosion...just a smooth technique and release.

as stated already.....practice, practice, practice!!
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Postby swel304 » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:24 pm

At the beginning of the summer I was averageing 150. After finding dgr.com, reading all the articles over and over again, and playing about 4-6 rounds a week I got up to about 250 average and 300 when I hit it just right. I had a friend that wanted to try playing as he had never thrown before. I let him use a heavy midranger and a putter that I was not using, and imparted some of the basics I learned here. In 4 rounds of play he is throwing near as far as I am.... with great accuracy. He doesnt xstep or any kind of run up, doesnt try to throw hard, just stands at the end of the tee and focuses on the basics I showed him. Its enough to make me sick sometimes lol, but its a perfect example that slowing down and focus on form and technique are more important than throwing your hardest.
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:54 pm

At this stage, you probably want to stick to slower discs. The reason your eagle fades harder left is because it is more overstable than your previous discs, which btw was a great progression.

I definately think you should have a buzz, probably an x buzz. Are you only using one disc? If not you want a fairway driver and a distance driver.

What you were using are not bad choices; I would recommend a cyclone. It is a relatively slow stable to slightly understable disc. Great for straight shots.

For distance, you couldn't go wrong with a spectra maybe. But I'm thinking you may be able to handle an x avenger, and even if you're not ready for it, you will be one day. So you're just buying it in advance.

On the spectra, it seems to be a great distance disc for people with weaker arms. I'm sure there are other discs in this category; I just can't think of any right now.
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Postby superq » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:53 pm

might try a slipstream, roadrunner, scream dt...

I usually recomend a stingray or cobra for new players, most people are still strugeling with distance and height problems if you are throwing the disc flat and hard you may skip that and go to a longer driver instead.
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