Listen to the baby's critique of my throwing

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Listen to the baby's critique of my throwing

Postby sunspot » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:01 pm

The noise you hear in the video is my daughter criticizing my throw :D

Seriously, any feedback on my throws would be great. Two out of the three throws are around 300. The one with the XS I shanked a little bit.

1) The first video is me throwing a XL and XS. The angle is out to the left and back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dz92nzwBi0


2) The second video is me throwing a gazelle. The angle is the "traditional" one where the camera is right to the side of me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Rm6W5RNaY


There's a couple of things I notice when I compare my throwing technique to others.

1. I don't keep my shoulders parallel during the pull through. This causes me to throw hyzer.

2. I don't get enough hip and torso action.

3. I'm "strong arming it."

4. I'm not keeping my eyes on the target. I'm keeping my head away.

5. I'm a chubby guy who could lose some weight. :D

These are some of the things I've noticed about my form. I would like some feedback. Thanks.
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Postby Timko » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:12 pm

That's pretty much everything I would tell you. It looks like you're not balanced, and that's the reason you're losing balance as you throw. Try slowing down, and really working on the follow through with the hips and body.

I can't comment on your weight, because I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum :shock:.
jsun3thousand wrote:Disc golfers are holding the sport back.
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Postby WraithMe » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:45 pm

I think your throw looks pretty good overall. You seem to have good arm speed and follow through. A couple things though that you may want to work on are not rolling onto the side of your plant foot and not stopping your montentum from your run up. In your current form you are basically throwing from a standstill after you walk up; I would try to continue your forward motion into the throw and use the rear leg drive and forward momentum gained from the runup to start the powered hip turn.
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Postby sunspot » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:48 pm

Furthur wrote:That's pretty much everything I would tell you. It looks like you're not balanced, and that's the reason you're losing balance as you throw. Try slowing down, and really working on the follow through with the hips and body.
.


One of things that I tend on doing is working from the hit back. Snap still seems to be elusive to me. The biggest thing I need to work on is the basics that are talk about on DGR.

I think your throw looks pretty good overall. You seem to have good arm speed and follow through. A couple things though that you may want to work on are not rolling onto the side of your plant foot and not stopping your montentum from your run up. In your current form you are basically throwing from a standstill after you walk up; I would try to continue your forward motion into the throw and use the rear leg drive and forward momentum gained from the runup to start the powered hip turn.


Your comments and Further's comments emphasis lower body. Looking at my throw I can tell that I'm not getting all my hips into the throw.


I also feel like my timing is off. I can tell that I'm not getting all the power I can into the shot.

I'll be doing some practice tomorrow.
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Postby black udder » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:02 pm

It's hard to see everything with those videos because you seem to do a lot right, so there's nothing super obvious. Blake has spent more time looking at form, so he could probably pick out stuff easier than most of us. I hope he finds some time and posts for you.

Here's my thoughts.

1. You're leading with your upper body. Your hips pivot, but they pivot because your body forces them to. It's better than no pivot, but your power needs to start with your hips.

2. Because you start the throw with the pull and shoulder rotation, you're squaring your shoulders to the target when your arm is still on the left side of your body. This causes the disc to come out early and is causing hyzer - whether you want it or not.

3. You look like you're keeping the disc close to your body, but when your shoulders rotate so fast, you don't get all the snap you can. To get your max snap, you'd end up releasing almost another 90 degrees to your right. To me, it explains why Blake has said "it's like when you grip lock a monster drive". That's when your arm speed catches up to the shoulder rotation and you max your snap.

4. I don't know for sure, but you might be just gripping the disc and keeping a fairly stable wrist - that is, not getting it to curl into the crook of your arm and then let the wrist flex to a handshake position at the rip. That's where you'll get your snap.

Now - the benefit of starting the throw with your hips is you'll gain power and speed to your rotation. That will, in turn, delay your pull. That, in turn, will allow you to accelerate 100% through your pull and finish to achieve max potential.

The tricky part is timing it all :)
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Postby JR » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:20 am

Less foot contact with the ground helps to pivot quicker. You're throwing flat and hyzer both with the plant step to the left of the left leg which is anhyzer positioning. In the Gazelle throw at least your wrist collapses upwards from wrist down to wrist neutral or wrist up before the disc leaves your hand. More forearm muscle tension helps. Maybe even starting with less wrist down that you need and increasing the down angle nearing the release. In the same throw the throwing arm gets lower than the release position for more rising angle and nose up. Try to keep the arm at constant height for learning purposes. Less variables helps to train faster and analyze your form. A slightly lower stance and a hard kick with more hop twist should increase D noticeably.
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Postby sunspot » Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:50 am

JR wrote:Less foot contact with the ground helps to pivot quicker. You're throwing flat and hyzer both with the plant step to the left of the left leg which is anhyzer positioning. In the Gazelle throw at least your wrist collapses upwards from wrist down to wrist neutral or wrist up before the disc leaves your hand. More forearm muscle tension helps. Maybe even starting with less wrist down that you need and increasing the down angle nearing the release. In the same throw the throwing arm gets lower than the release position for more rising angle and nose up. Try to keep the arm at constant height for learning purposes. Less variables helps to train faster and analyze your form. A slightly lower stance and a hard kick with more hop twist should increase D noticeably.


Thanks for the input JR. I notice in most of you're posts you try to be detailed, and I appreciate that.

In your last sentence you talked about lower stance. What do you mean by that? Am I suppose to bend my knees a little more, helping me get lower?

As far as my foot contact goes, you're right. I can definitely tell/feel that my feet are like concrete. It's as if my lower body is going slower than my upper body. I can tell when I throw that I'm not harnessing enough power from the speed and power of my lower body.

Getting those hips going would help out a lot :D
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Postby JR » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:55 am

sunspot wrote:
JR wrote:Less foot contact with the ground helps to pivot quicker. You're throwing flat and hyzer both with the plant step to the left of the left leg which is anhyzer positioning. In the Gazelle throw at least your wrist collapses upwards from wrist down to wrist neutral or wrist up before the disc leaves your hand. More forearm muscle tension helps. Maybe even starting with less wrist down that you need and increasing the down angle nearing the release. In the same throw the throwing arm gets lower than the release position for more rising angle and nose up. Try to keep the arm at constant height for learning purposes. Less variables helps to train faster and analyze your form. A slightly lower stance and a hard kick with more hop twist should increase D noticeably.


Thanks for the input JR. I notice in most of you're posts you try to be detailed, and I appreciate that.

In your last sentence you talked about lower stance. What do you mean by that? Am I suppose to bend my knees a little more, helping me get lower?

As far as my foot contact goes, you're right. I can definitely tell/feel that my feet are like concrete. It's as if my lower body is going slower than my upper body. I can tell when I throw that I'm not harnessing enough power from the speed and power of my lower body.

Getting those hips going would help out a lot :D


Yes absolutely bending the knees to lower your eye level (lower stance) will help immensely in pushing harder with the left leg. And twisting with both legs to give you a good initial speed forwards and rotationally that makes twisting harder and quicker with the hips much easier.

What you called detailed> Trying to serve and be helpful. Paying back for the help I've received and am receiving and hopefully will receive. Hopefully limiting the need to ask again is why I try to be what I call data rich. Naturally that can lead to so long posts that nobody else picks DGR collective wisdom nuggets from them. Unless it's directly answering somebody's questions. Man have I received a lot of trouble for trying to be helpful. And proud of it continuing doing it and being in your faces :-D No apologies!
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Postby masterbeato » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:33 pm

Don't worry about keeping your shoulders parellel. Thats the hyzer flip form on line drives. My shoulders are not parellel when I throw. Finishing high with your right shoulder is key.

Harness hip power. Try bending your plant leg.

Watch my video:

http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b6/St ... 84d01a.pbr
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Postby sunspot » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:34 pm

Is it good to lean at an angle to the left of your knee ( RHBH ) rather than leaning straight over your knee? This assuming that you have planted you're plant foot and are in pull of your throw.

When I was playing the other day I threw my roc super straight when no fade and I noticed that I leaned more to left of my knee rather than leaning completely over my knee.

I felt like I got my weight forward more when I leaned over to the left. I don't know if what I did was right or not.
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Postby JR » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:30 pm

sunspot wrote:Is it good to lean at an angle to the left of your knee ( RHBH ) rather than leaning straight over your knee? This assuming that you have planted you're plant foot and are in pull of your throw.

When I was playing the other day I threw my roc super straight when no fade and I noticed that I leaned more to left of my knee rather than leaning completely over my knee.

I felt like I got my weight forward more when I leaned over to the left. I don't know if what I did was right or not.


The more one leans the more stresses there are in your leg I think. But that's the proper orientation for releasing a hyzer. The more you lean the more mass you have away from the center of your gravity which will slow down your foot pivot a bit.
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Postby sunspot » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:41 am

The more one leans the more stresses there are in your leg I think. But that's the proper orientation for releasing a hyzer. The more you lean the more mass you have away from the center of your gravity which will slow down your foot pivot a bit.


I may need to clarify what I mean. When I leaned to the left it was during the throw of the disc. It was immediately after I threw it. Instead of pivoting directly over my front knee it was more to the left. I felt the transition of my weight forward seemed to be easier and less complicated then trying to go straight over my knee.

Looking back at my earlier post I didn't really clarify this.
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Postby JR » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:48 pm

sunspot wrote:
The more one leans the more stresses there are in your leg I think. But that's the proper orientation for releasing a hyzer. The more you lean the more mass you have away from the center of your gravity which will slow down your foot pivot a bit.


I may need to clarify what I mean. When I leaned to the left it was during the throw of the disc. It was immediately after I threw it. Instead of pivoting directly over my front knee it was more to the left. I felt the transition of my weight forward seemed to be easier and less complicated then trying to go straight over my knee.

Looking back at my earlier post I didn't really clarify this.


Look at the video of masterbeato you might be doing the same thing as he. Do you lock your right leg in place bulging the calf and thigh muscles about as much as possible? If so all your momentum is going into the muscles loading them like a spring and that'll make you jump to the left in the follow through as the tension is relieved.

Weight shift tilted is familiar to me from max D annies. I do let myself fall assisted with muscles twisting my torso and legs before that. It does seem to give me slightly more D. Dunno if the same would work with hyzers. Perhaps. Gravity might more than replace what's lost in having mass off the center of body. Being tilted might also keep legs aligned in more neutral position in relation to the hips. Legs really don't move a lot rotationally from the hips. During pivoting with the right leg leaning might help to keep the leg to hip joint unlocked and in a more powerful neutral position. Just speculation.
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Re:

Postby sunspot » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:48 pm

Look at the video of masterbeato you might be doing the same thing as he. Do you lock your right leg in place bulging the calf and thigh muscles about as much as possible? If so all your momentum is going into the muscles loading them like a spring and that'll make you jump to the left in the follow through as the tension is relieved.


I think that's what it is. It feels like I'm going to the left but in reality I'm doing what you've describe. Of course, when I do this (not all the time since I'm not always getting my weight forward) I notice that my throws are straighter.

I saw a video of a guy on youtube that talked about having you're weight over and little to the left of your plant leg after your throw. He said that most people " reverse pivot" which is basically not having your weight over your plant foot.
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