Gretagun's Drives

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Gretagun's Drives

Postby gretagun » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:34 pm

So I finally shot some video and gathered the nerves to post them here for critique. It definitely was an eye opener to watch these, and I can tell right now that I have a lot to work on. A few things that stick out right away are 1) not pulling close to my body 2) my legwork looks off/not enough hips and 3) probably not enough weight forward. I never realized that I'm hold the disc with my off hand either, but I don't think that is affecting my throw. I really appreciate any advice you can give me. Thanks in advance!

Video 1

Video 2

Video 3

Video 4
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Re: Gretagun's Drives

Postby black udder » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:40 pm

It looks pretty smooth, but I don't see a lot of rotation. Looks like you just walk up and throw it with your arm - no hips, no shoulder rotation leading the arm.

You could be more weight forward, but I suspect that adding momentum or rotation will help you with getting their. As slowly as you're moving, there isn't much to push you over your plant leg.
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Re: Gretagun's Drives

Postby bcsst26 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:41 pm

Yeah it looks smooth. Have you tried to work on things from a standstill?? What kind of distance are you getting there? I have been working on this lately (I put this off for a while since I couldn't get distance doing it....there was a reason why). It helps you do all the little things like get the hips involved, pull close to the chest, and feel snap. I will try to post my standstill throw here in the next day or two. Not that it is good but it will give you an idea where to start.
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Re: Gretagun's Drives

Postby JR » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:34 pm

That kind of smoothness is great for approaches and piercing small gaps but I consider your form to be better suited to approaching than driving. At least if you kept your eyes on the target longer.

You should get much easier leg pivot and hip twist if you plant your right leg on the line you're moving to or to the right of it for hyzers. Accelerating with the arm harder at the end should straighten your elbow more towards the target. You're losing a lot of power by not doing this. A great deal. Naturally more leg speed helps in getting the hips to twist faster and more which will change your approach style into a full on drive. But there's a great challenge in doing it. Your smoothness is great other than not putting the power in the elbow chop and later parts of the throw. You should be able to maintain that smoothness of your early part of throwing even at higher speeds and more muscle power usage. Therefore I suggest that you memorize how your body feels right now until the elbow chop. Comparing that ease and fluidity to faster and more tense muscles while maintaining the same ease is what I think Avery Jenkins is doing. His form is very minimalistic he wastes no energy. He is both fluid and easy while exerting more muscle power than I ever will.

Uncontrolled power in this game usually doesn't lower your scores. Therefore you having great body control is a great stepping stone. So many people try to rush forward before their basics are right and they'll sooner rather than later hit a wall. Usually because they can't stay balanced and loose speed from motions by locking up the muscles by bulging them fully. Which basically means that your muscles are fighting against themselves and each other to slow you down. Not a concern for your current smoothness. To loan something from Marshall Street DVDs you're dishing them out like a smoothie machine. That's great! Congratulations. Please try to hold on to that.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Gretagun's Drives

Postby gretagun » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:01 pm

Thank you so much for the replies.

I have been working on keeping things smooth and slow for a majority of this summer, but never got a chance to actually observe my throw. The first thing that I noticed when observing these videos was the lack of rotation. I almost cringed upon my first viewing, but I guess that's why these videos help :D Nothing in my hips, and as black udder stated, not much shoulder rotation either. Will speeding things up help me this? This throw is much slower than what I used to do, and I think I have just been scared to speed it back up.

bcsst26- I do work on standstill throws, working mainly with putters and mids, but I admit that I don't do practice standstill throws with my drivers. In those videos I was throwing Rocs and Teebirds. Using a rough estimate on google maps, I would say I was getting just under 300' with the Teebirds, and maybe 265-270 with the Rocs? I'm terrible at estimating distances.

JR, I will have to remember what you said about my plant leg in regard to my desired line. I never never really thought about that before. I totally know what you mean about not putting power in my elbow chop. I have felt that power maybe once or twice in a field session, but it just seems to happen on accident, and when it does, I really notice a difference. It is also funny that you mention my form being more akin to an approach, as that is probably the best part of my game.

I also came to the realization that I was not using a correct power grip until Saturday. I took those videos on Sunday, trying to incorporate a better grip. With my old grip, my index finger was seperate from my others, and was putting pressure into my thumb pad, instead of the base of my thumb. I probably re-read the grip article 4 or 5 times at work today. It feels really awkward right now, but I can't believe how much stronger my grip feels now.

Thanks again for all the helfpul insight.
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Re: Gretagun's Drives

Postby WraithMe » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:17 am

It looks to me like you have a very solid foundation there. I agree with what's been said in that I think you would benifit from more forceful leg and hip power leading the throw. Doing that should bump you up to the 330' mark and then slowly working in a longer reach back should get you throwing quite far. Again, I think you have nice form and I don't see any problem with the disc being too far away from your chest on the pull through.
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Re: Gretagun's Drives

Postby black udder » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:52 pm

In video 4, you look between 11-14 seconds and you'll see that you transfer all your weight back onto your off leg. If you're doing an x-step, that's where you come to a stop. From that point, all that came before is worthless. Thus, from a standing position, rocking back, then forward onto your plan leg should yield you the same distance.

When you reach back, you don't reach back in a straight line, you reach around your body. Imagine the disc sites in a grooved track that goes straight back from your target. keep the disc on that line and rotate and manipulate your body to stay on that line. When you divert from that path, you lose speed and accuracy with your throw. All you're really doing (supposed to do) is pull your disc in a straight line from your reach back to your rip point. The closer you can stay to that, the more accurate you can become.

As for disc being close to your chest, if you can freeze video 3 around 2-3 seconds when the disc just comes out, you'll see that your chest is still 90 degrees from the target, you need your chest facing, or almost facing your target to get the power of your shoulder rotation. The disc is basically coming out early for getting power. You appear to be getting some good snap and that's what's generating your distance.

With no hip power and limited shoulder rotation, you're relying primarily on arm speed, snap and finish. Add some hip power and more shoulders and you should pick up some solid distance.

Pause the video 3 at 2 seconds just as you reach back to see (again) how you're reaching behind and down with all your weight back instead of reaching straight back on a line and pivoting your body.

If you're going to use an x-step, then make sure you're moving "downhill". While I can't see myself doing it, brad hammock's throw is pretty much a blatant example - he's primed to throw and just building running momentum. When you x-step, you have to build the moving momentum while *not* re-starting your throw when you plant. You have to get your timing right so that you can x-step, reach back and pull through all in the motion of moving forwards.

If you stand in a stand-still position, lift your plant foot and pull it back (sort of like a pitcher), then lean back into your plant and throw. That's your transfer of weight. You want that kind of weight transfer to basically start on your first step of your x-step, that's when you're moving "downhill" and everything up to your release is rhythm and timing to keep you from stopping and transferring that weight backwards instead of forwards.

Make sense?
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Re: Gretagun's Drives

Postby gretagun » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:25 pm

When you reach back, you don't reach back in a straight line, you reach around your body.
You are referring to my reach back correct? Now that you have pointed it out, I do see that, and the groove track analogy makes sense.

As for disc being close to your chest, if you can freeze video 3 around 2-3 seconds when the disc just comes out, you'll see that your chest is still 90 degrees from the target, you need your chest facing, or almost facing your target to get the power of your shoulder rotation.
So will this depend on my hip rotation getting my chest more square to the target, while my torso brings my shoulder open to harness this power? Again I can clearly see this now that you have pointed it out.

I'm a little confused on what you said about the weight transfer. Somewhere I must have interpreted that I want to get most of my weight onto my back leg, and then shift that to my plant leg. I think it was in one of the Ultimate Disc Golf Shows w/ Climo. Is it possible I'm trying to exaggerate this transfer to my back leg, when the x-step alone should provide enough transfer? If I understand what you mean by "downhill", I should be constantly moving my weight forward, not shifting it all the way back, and then back forward?

Thanks again for you help. I have found most of your posts on this board seem to really makes sense for me, and really appreciate the input.
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Re: Gretagun's Drives

Postby JR » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:14 am

Yes about rotating with the legs, hips and shoulders to face the target at the hit.

In an idealized case you need the quickest possible acceleration of the weight forward at the end so it's doable with a short weight shift. I've found leaning back to help in learning timing because it takes longer to throw. Unfortunately it also limits power. Staying upright should suffice as long as you accelerate hard in shifting the weight forward. Starting the weight shift from upright position helps to avoid too early acceleration having constant or diminishing speed at the end. 60 in 100 out is reasonable here too in my limited experience.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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