top three Cali courses

[plastic_fondler]

I think I'm dreaming of hole 6 every night.


Hole 1 was the least fun. It was all muddy mountainside and poor footing even though it hadn't been raining for a week. How the hell do you guys ever get up there in 3 throws on that cliffside mud pit? I fell on my ass twice trying to chuck it hard up that slope. I think you Stafford guys put it there to scare away less committed disc golfers right at the outset. If a person still wants to play more after doing hole #1 under these conditions, then they will have a blast on the rest of the course.

Funny...I dream about hole 1. I imagine you didn't even see the black basket position on 1 that turns it into a par 4. You just need to throw far and learn to land your drive up on the ridge on a flat spot. You are correct about scaring people away. I might guess this is one of the hardest starting holes out there.

[Bugbee]

Quakers Challenge near Harrisburg PA has a big uphill hole as it's first hole. A steep rocky hill that screams "get out mah park!"

[plastic_fondler]

This place you mean? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIxTFpPi698 I think that hole is shown a few times. Seems like a nice one...not quite 478 ft.with +99ft of elevation. I'm sure there are bigger holes than this with mt. golf.

[JHern]

Surprisingly, the LA weather sucked, so we didn't get to play La Mirada this weekend. We got to play 1/2 round at Oak Grove Pasadena before being chased out by the rudest players I've ever encountered in my life (wow, I thought this was supposed to be a special place, and instead inhabited by the worst attitudes and most anti-disc-golf-like vibe I've ever experienced...I'll probably never go back). So we went to Sylmar with some nicer locals and enjoyed that course very very much. The Sylmar course isn't far from I-5, just a tad east on the 210...I would highly recommend it.

[Star Shark]

OG was having the Am side of the Wintertime Open this weekend. The regulars there can be a pain in the ass tho. Some are on the wrong sort of drugs, and others are just rednecky assholes. There are some good people there, tho. The Pros play next weekend.

[JHern]

OG was having the Am side of the Wintertime Open this weekend. The regulars there can be a pain in the ass tho. Some are on the wrong sort of drugs, and others are just rednecky assholes. There are some good people there, tho. The Pros play next weekend.

After reflection, I'm not so sure it was the regulars in general...I think it was the Am players, some of whom are probably locals with alpha male complexes. I don't want to disparage any particular group. None of the younger regular OG players I talked to knew who these guys were, or what was going on until later when the guy running the tournament came and explained why people were appearing out of nowhere in the middle of our round, cutting in and out at various tees, chucking discs at us and telling us to get the f*** off of "their course" and such while we had no clue that there was even a tournament going on.

So the course was crowded...it would also have been helpful if they had posted signs or something to let anyone else know what was going on, or maybe kept the OG website up to date since I planned my entire trip to SoCal around playing at OG and I googled intensively to make sure it wouldn't be under maintenance or anything. This was similar to the time I made a huge effort to play SFGG, after checking their website for closure info, finding nothing on what seemed to be a fairly current schedule of events, and then arriving to find the course being urinated on by thousands of people atttending a bluegrass festival next to the course (the baskets had been removed, which implies they must have known and could have posted this info!).

Anyways, it was a mess. I get the sense that probably OG is just in way too high demand and everyone thinks they have a right to be there and strut around like roosters being intolerant of other players and especially of non-locals. In other words, OG looked to me to be exactly like an exclusive ball golf country club, but without the "members only" signs warning you to expect this kind of behavior. Too bad. This might be a bad omen for the rest of disc golf, unless players take more seriously the code of conduct and courtesy that should be the bedrock of the sport.

As a counter-example, and a story much more in line with what I think is the spirit of disc golf, we ran into a couple of younger local guys whose very first disc golf experience was a few years back at OG in the pro portion of that same tournament. Their first day of DG, they were invited to join in the round by the pro (I don't recall his name at the moment) who ended up winning the tournament, and who was giving them pointers and tips and such the whole time and gave them some good newbie discs to throw. What a contrast!

If disc golf turns into an OG-like country club, I'm going to be very disappointed, and it will take much of the fun and spirit out of the game for me. For now I'm going to play all the chill vibe courses I know, and try to forget the bad taste OG left in my mouth.

[Desafinado]

Just to chip in my thoughts on this, since I've both visited OG and played in several SoCal PDGA events. The following are the definitive resources on California tournament activity that will render courses closed and unavailable for play:

http://www.socaldiscgolf.org/2009Schedule.htm - List of all 2009 SoCal PDGA events
http://www.norcalseries.com/schedule.html - List of all 2009 Norcal PDGA events
http://www.pdga.com/tour-schedule - Master list of all PDGA events

The Wintertime Open has been listed on the SoCal and PDGA schedules since late December. Whenever I go road-tripping, I always make sure to check these three resources to ensure the course I want to play is available- I learned the hard way like you, when I only checked the local course website for the course in Santa Maria, saw nothing listed, then showed up to a course full of tournament players.

Also, the Wintertime Open in particular takes the regular OG layout and goes bonkers with it, playing safari from one tee to another basket, temp holes, the whole nine yards. Which would explain why players kept popping up out of nowhere, or coming from what seemed to be the wrong hole.

They definitely should have posted a sign at the course entrance to let people know that there was a tournament taking place, however, that's negligence on the part of the TD(s).

Now, to your other point- I have played about 4-5 PDGA events up here in Norcal, and 4-5 down in SoCal. I play Advanced Am, and I can back up your assessment about the attitudes of players in that region. Obviously I'm generalizing, since I've played with only 20-25 different am players down south, but the prevailing attitude is one of hyper-competitiveness, aggressive behavior, and victory above all without consideration of their fellow man. There are certainly a number of folks down there who I enjoyed playing with and embodied a positive competitive spirit, but it's nothing like Norcal, where the majority of players I've played with are positive and encouraging.

I think what best sums up what I'm describing is- in my tournaments up north, you regularly hear other players on the card vocally wishing your shots well - "miss that tree!", "get in there!" - and congratulating one another on a shot well done. In my tournaments down south, I've mostly seen steely silence.

When I visited OG on a weekend about 3 years ago, it was busy but not totally packed. The locals seemed friendly enough- I think that's less the issue than the tournament players(most of whom are not OG locals) simply being aggravated that there were "casuals" interrupting their rounds. I don't condone the sorts of things they yelled at you guys, but I see that up here in Norcal as well- nobody likes to be in the middle of a tournament, focused and ready to move to the next tee shot, and then have to wait for non-tournament players.

Anyway, in my opinion you didn't miss out on much by not playing OG in its fullest- there is some historical value there, obviously, but as a disc golf course, there are several other courses in the greater LA area that I think are superior - La Mirada, El Dorado, Sylmar, even Whittier Narrows...

[Desafinado]

Funny...I dream about hole 1. I imagine you didn't even see the black basket position on 1 that turns it into a par 4. You just need to throw far and learn to land your drive up on the ridge on a flat spot. You are correct about scaring people away. I might guess this is one of the hardest starting holes out there.

Yeah, I'd dream about hole 1 too, if I had a 400 foot forehand drive in my toolbox

What's the latest estimate on getting all 18 teepads finished? I promise to come play the Stafford Lake Open once that's done, even though I don't throw far enough to be competitive out there.

[JHern]

Just to chip in my thoughts on this, since I've both visited OG and played in several SoCal PDGA events. The following are the definitive resources on California tournament activity that will render courses closed and unavailable for play:

http://www.socaldiscgolf.org/2009Schedule.htm - List of all 2009 SoCal PDGA events
http://www.norcalseries.com/schedule.html - List of all 2009 Norcal PDGA events
http://www.pdga.com/tour-schedule - Master list of all PDGA events

The Wintertime Open has been listed on the SoCal and PDGA schedules since late December. Whenever I go road-tripping, I always make sure to check these three resources to ensure the course I want to play is available- I learned the hard way like you, when I only checked the local course website for the course in Santa Maria, saw nothing listed, then showed up to a course full of tournament players.

Thanks for the information! This will cover some of it. There are, of course, other events that will also pop up where I can't get any information in advance. Like the time there was a concert at Golden Gate Park in San Francisco, and a well-kept and up-to-date calendar on their website did not list the closure due to this enormous event.

If you go to the OG web site ogdgc.org and click on the "calendar" link, you'll get the deceptive perception that it is kept up to date very nicely. However, you'll also notice that last weekend's tournament was not listed. I guess I was fooled into believing somebody was on top of things down there, when in fact it is pretty much chaos. This is not to disparage the people who work on these sites, of course, since they are likely volunteering their time and doing whatever they can as a service. I suppose it might be good for sites to note that there may be events other than listed on their site, and maybe where to find that info.

Also, the Wintertime Open in particular takes the regular OG layout and goes bonkers with it, playing safari from one tee to another basket, temp holes, the whole nine yards. Which would explain why players kept popping up out of nowhere, or coming from what seemed to be the wrong hole.

They definitely should have posted a sign at the course entrance to let people know that there was a tournament taking place, however, that's negligence on the part of the TD(s).

Yeah, it was pretty wild! The other thing is that the tournament players were apparently away for lunch when we began our round, so there were not very many people out on the course to begin. When I got to the course, I asked somebody (who later ended up being a tournament person, I think) where I could find the 1st tee pad and they pointed the way without saying anything.

Now, to your other point- I have played about 4-5 PDGA events up here in Norcal, and 4-5 down in SoCal. I play Advanced Am, and I can back up your assessment about the attitudes of players in that region. Obviously I'm generalizing, since I've played with only 20-25 different am players down south, but the prevailing attitude is one of hyper-competitiveness, aggressive behavior, and victory above all without consideration of their fellow man. There are certainly a number of folks down there who I enjoyed playing with and embodied a positive competitive spirit, but it's nothing like Norcal, where the majority of players I've played with are positive and encouraging.

I think what best sums up what I'm describing is- in my tournaments up north, you regularly hear other players on the card vocally wishing your shots well - "miss that tree!", "get in there!" - and congratulating one another on a shot well done. In my tournaments down south, I've mostly seen steely silence.

That is unfortunate. I lived in SoCal from 2000-2006 and I am fine with the difference in attitudes there in general (or maybe just used to it). But it sure would be nice if disc golfers could break through the rudeness gap that otherwise exists between NorCal and SoCal...one would think that disc golf exists in a separate universe with better conduct and chill vibes all around.

Anyway, in my opinion you didn't miss out on much by not playing OG in its fullest- there is some historical value there, obviously, but as a disc golf course, there are several other courses in the greater LA area that I think are superior - La Mirada, El Dorado, Sylmar, even Whittier Narrows...

Sylmar was great. I enjoyed it quite a lot. Excellent view of the San Fernando valley as well after the rain clouds lifted (the earlier rains had scoured away all the fog, and it was crystal clear).

[the unwrinkled ear]

wow. i played in that tourney at OG this last weekend and while oak grove is not my home course, i havent found the folks there to be that obnoxious. (there was one instance a couple years ago, but i wont get into that.) I usually play in the mornings there - it gets very crowded later and on weekends.

you should have hit up the only course in LA proper while you were doing a tour - chavez ridge at dodger stadium. only 20 minutes from OG, and 30 from sylmar.

as far as norcal vs. socal atitudes, generalizations are usally pretty pointless, but i've had pleasant and unpleasant experiences with both in tourneys.
as mentioned ealrier in this thread, however, my rented car was keyed down both sides while i played navato in norcal, which was a bit of a shock considering it was a tuesday morning and there were only two other groups of disc golfers at the park. but i dont hold that idiotic display of misplaced anger on anyone whose home course is at stafford lake.
there are stupid jerky people everywhere.
and there are plenty of folks at OG who are smart and friendly. sorry you had to be bombarded by some bad ones.
(if you arrived after 1pm or so, you were probably running into the final 9 for the top 3 advanced ams, and the route they took was even more haphazardly all over the course than the already-unusual layout)

[Dump truck]

I'm going to stay a night at coronado island and then head to joshua tree before heading out. I had planned on playing morley field. Is there a better course to play in between coronado and joshua tree?

[plastic_fondler]

What's the latest estimate on getting all 18 teepads finished? I promise to come play the Stafford Lake Open once that's done, even though I don't throw far enough to be competitive out there.

We are refocusing our spring plan for the last few pads. The goal is to cement all the additional ones (2,4,5,6,7,16,18) and then finish the longs for 3 and 18 before the Open. Open is planned for last weekend in August right now...we are going back and forth with scheduling. We recently won California parks and rec volunteers on the year. Part of this is the potential for a grant, so we are working on that now. It will involve maintenance of all the tees baskets on the existing course, plus a proposal for an additional course. Additional course is going to be a combination of the Rustic Meadows one plus an 18 hole one around area's 1 and 2. This would allow play during red flag days. The Rangers are very into this already!

I'm sorry that your car was key'd at stafford. I saw your comment on our website and for the life of me I don't know who would do that. We do have some stupid people in the area that just got arrested for car break ins.

[Desafinado]

I'm going to stay a night at coronado island and then head to joshua tree before heading out. I had planned on playing morley field. Is there a better course to play in between coronado and joshua tree?

You'll have 4 courses on the way - Morley Field, Emerald Isle, Sun Valley, and Montiel Park. Sun Valley and Montiel are both 9-hole courses and clearly the 'bottom two' of this group, so I'll limit my thoughts and advice to the other two.

Morley Field is a really fun course, under the right circumstances. If you're heading out first thing in the morning, and can start your round within either an hour of dawn(weekend) or within three hours of dawn(weekday), then you can avoid the #1 downside to this course, which is the crazy crowds. People often say 'man, my local course X is packed', but until you've experienced Morley around noon on a weekend, you don't know the true definition of that phrase. They do something like 80,000+ paid users per year... chew on that one for a minute Pay to play, $2-3 for an all-day pass. The course is 19 well-maintained holes, with 5+ pin positions for each hole that are rotated each Monday. Great balance of lefty and righty holes, some elevation change, open shots, tight shots, the only type of hole the course doesn't have is long ones- there are only a handful of positions that will require more than 300 feet of distance. Not a whole ton of challenge, especially for stronger players- pros regularly shoot what the locals call 'digits' (-10 or better).

Emerald Isle is a much more challenging disc golf course, which favors players with big distance. It's set on an executive 18-hole ball golf course in a retirement community, with two sets of tee pads per hole. They might have alternate pin positions, but the handful of times I've been the baskets are always in the same place. Pay to play, anywhere from like $7 (weekday, no cart) to $18 (weekend, with golf cart). Beautifully maintained by disc golf standards, what with the ball golf fairways and so forth. Sand traps and greens are OB, and most pins are tucked fiendishly right next to those OB hazards, creating a high level of risk/reward if you try to go for birdies. There are two par 4s, as I recall, with the rest par 3s. A couple of big water hazards that make for very nervous teeshots... shooting a par 56 is a solid round here. I've always played early mornings, and have never encountered other ball golfers, but some have reported having issues getting stuck behind a slow ball golf group.

They're both worth playing depending on your preferences- I personally have a soft spot for disc golf courses that are on ball golf courses, but I know some folks don't care for it. You'll definitely get an arm workout and a better test of golf playing Emerald Isle, but if you're playing with folks who aren't hardcore, Morley Field will be a more fun experience- as long as you go early in the AM.

Let me know if you have any other questions, I'd be happy to answer them as I've played Morley 300+ times and Emerald Isle about 10.

Here's the Disc Golf Review pages for each of the three:

Morley - http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=298
Emerald Isle - http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=592
Sun Valley - http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1878
Montiel Park - http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=2544

[JHern]

We are refocusing our spring plan for the last few pads. The goal is to cement all the additional ones (2,4,5,6,7,16,18) and then finish the longs for 3 and 18 before the Open.

Sounds great! Post a note when you guys are going to do the work, we'll try to get out there and help out.

We recently won California parks and rec volunteers on the year. Part of this is the potential for a grant, so we are working on that now. It will involve maintenance of all the tees baskets on the existing course, plus a proposal for an additional course. Additional course is going to be a combination of the Rustic Meadows one plus an 18 hole one around area's 1 and 2. This would allow play during red flag days. The Rangers are very into this already!

Awesome! You guys totally rock! Such a contrast out in the great valley...both planned/under construction (indeed, Sacramento city was building its 1st 18 hole course) and existing courses (e.g., Bidwill park in Chico) are being closed due to micro-environmentalism. It is good to see disc golf making headway over in Marin.

I'm sorry that your car was key'd at stafford. I saw your comment on our website and for the life of me I don't know who would do that. We do have some stupid people in the area that just got arrested for car break ins.

Yeah, when I read that, I was a bit paranoid but relieved to find my car unharmed upon return.

[jeremy]

This Sunday I fly out to San Diego for a week, and Emerald Isle is on the want to play list, and Morely is on the gonna play list. Not having a car will probably be a problem for making it to Emerald Isle, but I'll definately try.