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Information, Questions, Discussion about Throwing Mechanics and Technique

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Postby Blake_T » Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:37 pm

Jason Bryant wrote:My issue seems to be the snap, as in, I have NONE whatsoever. I cannot snap anything, when I try, it flies way right after the release.


could you elaborate at all on this, the flying "way right" part mainly?
are you grip locking it and yanking it off line to the right or turning it over?

as for the D question, if you aren't breaking 300', i'm guessing it's either a problem with your footwork or your grip. assuming you are releaseing nose down with good upper body rotation and the disc close to your body, if you aren't utilizing your legs enough or have a grip that doesn't allow for wrist movement may be among the culprits. i've seen people who are able to strong arm 350+ before, but for each problem that you have taking away D, you also need other things that are contributing to D. am guessing there is an imbalance here but i can't say for sure what.
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Postby Jason Bryant » Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:38 pm

When I say "way right" I mean I'm probably releasing way late.

The problem I think with the "snap" is more along the lines that I might not have the disc as close to my body as possible. Just walking in the halls after reading the post, that it's usually arm extended, then when I turn my body backwards it's out wide.

Do I start the turn at the start of the run-up then the x-step..? Thinking about it retrospectively, I think I start the turn as I plant my lead foot.

I use the power grip, all fingers except the thumb tucked under the lip of the disc.

Some holes I reach back and use my run-up and x-step, but some I just plant and whip it.

Another problem is terminology. I know what hyzer/anhyzer, etc. But "roll over" I've always had a problem with.

What does it mean?

I play casually, but I can't help but wanting to make 340 foot holes not so intimidating.

At Newport News, there's two holes from the whites that are over 340 and I bogey them almost every time. I've never birdied either.
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Postby Blake_T » Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:15 pm

k, that clears things up a bit.

if you use a straight pull line, the disc will be off your body during the reach back, but on the pull through it has to be close to your body. when i get a lot of snap it actually feels/looks like the disc is being launched out of the left side of my chest.

your body should not start to unwind until after the plant/pivot has hit the ground. if you start early, you will have a big tendency to yank throws way to the right. the explosion of the hips open will turn the torso, the torso will turn the shoulders, the shoulder will pull the arm, etc. it's mostly incidental motion with focused motion coming at the rip point and follow through.

an easy way to check is to start with both feet down and then power a throw with pushing into the pivot and whipping your hips open.

as for "roll over," this term refers to rolling the wrist over during the follow through. a "pure release" occurs when the angle of the follow through occurs on a plane parallel with the disc angle, i.e. a flat throw has a flat follow through, a hyzer angle has a follow through upwards at an angle equal to the hyzer angle, etc. a lot of players, especially with newer discs have a tendency to either 1) roll their wrist over and finish with their palm facing somewhat upwards instead of facing sideways or 2) follow through on an angle lower than the disc angle. each of these has similar properties that will help turn a disc over. on throws like a hyzer flip s-curve or a roll curve (starts hyzer and turns over and holds the turnover line) you will want this kind of wrist action, but on most straight drives, i generally recommend a pure release. the reason for this is that if the wrist roll begins too early (before the disc is ripping out) or enter the follow through angle early you will steal snap from yourself and have a tendency to grip lock or turn discs way over.

just about everyone should be able to hit the 330-360' range even with far from perfect technique, however, it's a give and take scenario. if we assume that everything happening correctly will yield 400+, to get say 350, you either need either:
1) great footwork, moderate snap, and good armspeed
2) good armspeed, good snap, poor footwork (i call this "strong arming)
3) great footwork, good snap, poor armspeed
4) great armspeed, poor snap, moderate footwork
5) one of any number of other combinations that won't yield 400+

your disc choices may also come into play a bit as you didn't list what you normally throw as drivers. disc speed is very important nowadays. i saw you listed the crush, and i find that disc too fast/overstable for me and the only players i know who really throw it well have ~425+ power. i'd guess a disc like the elite x storm or elite x xl might give you more D at the moment.

hope this could help
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Postby Jobuu » Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:05 pm

is there anyway to setup an upload section or an email (with size restriction of course) for us to post a small video of us driving and someone kind enough to analize our techinque?

this would be so sweet! i also fall victim to the under 300 range and need help.
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Postby Blake_T » Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:26 pm

i can handle approximately 2mb attachments max. although generally i'll need a few key frames to be able to look for things that could be improved. grip is also important.

otherwise if you send me a vhs or hi8 tape i can break it down as well.
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Postby JacksWeather » Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:13 am

I took up practicing disc golf alot like a month ago, practiced almost daily for a week and a half and read technique info on this site, I kinda retired for 2 weeks or so, and have been back at it for about a week, something newer on this site is a video of someone moving their forearm so fast that it makes their hand snap like a whip. This has really helped my throw. For some reason I was like just putting effort into my stepping and hip rotation, but after seeing the video and watching some guys at a course rip the disc way farther than me without having very good stepping, I realized I needed to somehow put more arm into my throw. So after deciding that, its taken about 2 days of practice and I'm my elbow alot more than I was before and my throws are getting much better. I'm not throwing 350 yet, but I'm getting close to having consistent and accurate 300ft throws, and I think I'm still improving. So if there is anyone reading this who is also not close to getting 350 yet, maybe it'll help if you try using your arm more. Before, for some reason, I was thinking I should be throwing with my wrist to add more spin to the disc and possible get a better throw, since I saw the video of the front arm whipping the wrist by using the elbow, I now use a different part of my arm that is really helping my throw.
Today seems like a good day to toss a disc or two.
The one for hyzer-flipping, turning over right on que.
I try to throw just like that, but sometimes I really suck.
Some say I need to get the axing, chalk it up to bad luck.
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Postby Beast156g » Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:00 am

I would like to elaborate on what JacksWeather mentioned about him now using a different part of his arm to throw. I belive that most people that are throwing under 300' are using the bicept muscle to try to whip hand (and disc) through the rip. Even if you have a good shoulder rotation you cannot get large amounts of snap this way. The correct way is to use your shoulder muscle to pull through and let your entire arm "go limp". It really is like cracking a whip, if you use your bicpet to crack it, that just leaves your wrist and forearm to act as the whip, if you use your shoulder you effectively double the length of the whip to include your whole arm, and your shoulder is a more powerful muscle. The key is to make sure that your shoulder to your elbow is pulled back as far as possible, or at least as far as you feel comfortable. I have found that even if your timing is off, meaning that your hip/shoulder rotation is not timed perfectly to lead the shoulder explosion that whips the arm, you will still increase distance, and when the timing comes together you will find yourself crushing them.
By the way Blake your instuctional articles and website have helped me tremendously, Thanks alot.
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Postby Blake_T » Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:17 am

glad the articles have been able to help you.


as for a comment on what you have written something that i have seen lately are players who lead with the elbow and it moves simultaneously with the shoulder. according to Dave D. this allows for greater elbow extension during the hit and at least more efficient if not greater D. i've experimented with both ways and found that letting the arm go limp (something i have taught before) generally does not allow this as there is a lag period between the shoulder movement and the follow of the elbow. i can say leading with the elbow seems to generate better snap, but i haven't gotten a great feel for the timing of it.

walter haney and justin jernigan on the throwing videos pages do this quite well.
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Postby JacksWeather » Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:33 pm

Oh man. I've worked on much more muscle memory since that last post of mine on this thread. I think the muscle I was using was actualy a tricep muscle when I was doing that snap thing. Now, I think I've finally taught myself how to relax my entire arm alot more (including my grip which was giving me tons of trouble). Now, I'm focusing on getting distance for a fluid motion kinda... Like, one thing I worked on was making my x-step balanced and not choppy. I think it also turns out that I was never keeping my wrist locked down when when i was throwing before, which I think would account for unpredicatability of nose angles as well as a loss in distance. When I keep my wrist locked down now, I think I really understand the whipping of my wrist better. I'm holding my hand higher on the reach back and trying to keep my elbow up, but not use it to throw, and trying to throw forward more than throw out. I have constently thrown around the 300ft mark since like I first started, but I know there have always been parts of my throw that have changed. Right now I think I'm starting to put less effort into my throw which is something I was always amazed with before when I saw long throws, how little effort it looked like people were putting into the throw. I'd say that when i posted that last post I didn't have any Idea of how my body was supposed to power the disc and I think I have a better idea now. Thats probably due to practicing and trying to correct various things, and just getting a better feeling for the throw over time. I was throwing reach back before that post, then getting into bent elbow during it, and now I'm back to reach back, but just to learn essential parts of fluidity and cleanliness of the throw. Once I feel like my throw has been cleaned up, I'll try to chop my elbow more and try to achieve some extra snap and distance that way. Right now, my reach back is like... reach back with disc level about shoulder height with wrist locked in the down position, then checking to make sure my elbow is as high as comfortably possible, then concentrating on pulling the disc through with the wrist locked down and somehow keeping it close to my chest still, its kinda an akward thing to do, I just have to learn how to bend my elbow correctly and not bend the wrist anymore. Also when I first started doing the reach back again for the first time, I definitely did notice that the farther back my arm reached, the more distance the disc got, even if it didn't seem like I was pulling any harder. (I am posting this having been playing for around...5 months) I'm going to have alot more discs next summer, so I'm hoping I will be able to have much more productive learning sessions for driving and putting.
Today seems like a good day to toss a disc or two.
The one for hyzer-flipping, turning over right on que.
I try to throw just like that, but sometimes I really suck.
Some say I need to get the axing, chalk it up to bad luck.
JacksWeather
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:35 am
Location: Detroit, MI

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