Driver, Mid-Range, Putters - When to use?

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Driver, Mid-Range, Putters - When to use?

Postby Jwt4412 » Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:32 am

Blake,

Could you lay out what discs you use in typical situations.

I see in your responses that you appear to be throwing a putter from 200' out.

When do you use drivers and mid-ranges and what kind of throw are you using when putting [when do you change your technique on putting - how far out] - etc...

Thanks.
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Postby garublador » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:51 am

I use a putter whenever I can. If I can't throw a putter for the shot I'm looking for I'll use a midrange. If I can't use a midrange I'll use a driver. It helps to find a field or something and really find out what your limits are for each disc. You'd be suprised how far you can throw a putter.

All the distances I'll give are for the flightpath of the disc on flat land, not necessarily the distance I want to throw "as the crow flies." So, a big hyzer that ends up 200' away from me might actually fly 250' or more.

Personally, I'll use a putter up to 280', assuming there's an open ceiling. Once I start getting within 200' I'll almost always use a putter unless it's super windy or a specialty shot. If there's a strong tailwind I'd consider a putter for a 300', open shot.

I'll use a midrange for most stuff from 250'-310' or so, again depending on the ceiling. I'll use one for a shorter shot if there's a low ceiling or a headwind. If I need a strong hyzer at the end of a 250'-300' shot or there's a headwind I may bump up to a tweener disc (a disc between a midrange and long range driver).

I'll use tweener discs for stuff from 300'-320' depending on the situation. I also use them for most stuff over 300' if there's a tunnel I need to hit.

After that I'll reach for the long range drivers.

All this means that I pick my disc based on the shot and the conditions rather than where I am on the hole. If the tee is only 230' away from the basket and the fairway is open, I'll throw a putter. If I'm on a 500' hole and there's a really tight fairway I may throw a midrange or a tweener disc rather than a driver.
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Postby Jwt4412 » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:56 am

This "ceiling" you are talking about.

When you throw, typically how high do your discs go in a wide open shot?

I've been trying to keep my discs low and level, I think I maybe missing something here.

When you let it rip, what is the disc doing in flight?
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Postby garublador » Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:46 pm

When I say "ceiling," I'm talking about stuff that's above the fairway that a disc could hit, mainly tree branches.

I find that putters and most midrange discs need a good amount of height to get the best distance out of them. I'm bad at estimating distances, but I'd guess that when I throw a putter as far as I can in the open I throw it 15'-20' off the ground. If it goes much lower than that it will hit the ground before it fades at all, which means it could have gone farther if it were higher in the air. If I throw a midrange at a similar height, I'll get a bit more distance out of it and a harder fade. I can throw a midranage lower, say 5'-10' high and get less distance, but I find that harder to excecute while still being accurate. They tend to lift up on their own more than putters do for me.

The tweener discs are similar to the midrange discs, but I find they are easier to throw lower and tend to lift up more than midrange discs. Many of the discs in this category that I've tried to throw high end up stalling out early. I can either try to keep them low and get the same distance as a midrange thrown high, or throw them normally and they'll go 10'-15' high and get their normal distance.

The drivers I throw I have to throw 5'-10' off the ground or they will stall out and not get good distance. Because a small variation in height will cause a fairly large variation in distance, I try not to use these discs when I want to limit how far I throw. I'd rather come up 50' short with a slower disc than risk landing 20' in a pond rather than 10' short of it. If I have a shot where I want to go at least 330' and have some room side to side for error, then I know it's a good driver shot.
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Postby Jwt4412 » Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:21 pm

These 15' to 20' in the air throws are hyzers?

If you want to throw and end up with the disc directly in front of you - how far to the right of the target do you release the disc? 1 o'clock, 2' o'clock, etc...?
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Postby Blake_T » Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:50 pm

height, where you aim, etc. are very much based upon the discs you are throwing, what angle you release them with, and how much power/nose down. there really isn't a general rule except that the only discs you can usually throw straight at something with are broken in discs.

as a rule of thumb
a putter needs:
~10' of height to go 200'
~15' of height to go 260'
~22' of height to go 300'

a midrange needs:
~10' of height to go 250'
~15' of height to go 280'
~22' of height to go 320'

a slower driver needs:
~10' of height to go 270'
~15' of height to go 320'
~22' of height to go 350'

a high speed driver:
~10' of height to go 350'
~15' of height to go 410'
~22' of height to go 450'

this will vary based upon the discs you use, but should be in that same ballpark.
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Postby Jwt4412 » Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:54 pm

I now understand the concept - but how do you throw something above your head if you are throwing with the nose down?
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Postby Blake_T » Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:21 am

the trajectory of the disc does not have to be the same as the plane of the disc.
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Postby garublador » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:04 am

I'm happy to see that my height estimates are fairly close to Blake's. I was worried about posting numbers and I figured he'd contradict me.

My understanding of "nose down" is that it refers to the disc being nose down with respect to it's trajectory, not nose down with respect to a plane parallel to the ground. I find it more difficult to throw nose down and high than to throw nose down and level.
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Postby Jwt4412 » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:21 am

the trajectory of the disc does not have to be the same as the plane of the disc.


English, please?

Blake,

When I try to throw nose down, I end up throwing low - How do you throw nose down with a high trajectory? If I get to the point of understanding this, my came improves immediately... I have a great short game - I just can't get these drivers to break 300 and are usually throwing them abot 225.
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Picture this.

Postby msirota » Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:33 am

Sitting right where you are, imagine trying to hit the ceiling 10 feet in front of you with the top of a spinning disc rather than the leading edge. The disc may be spinning parallel to the ceiling while it is moving upwards. The nose is down relative to the path of the disc.
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Postby Jwt4412 » Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:38 pm

Thanks Everybody.

This makes sense.... To the course!
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Postby Blake_T » Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:45 pm

Mark hit it on the head.

ideally the back edge (closest to you) would be slightly higher than the front edge in order to get the disc to hold nose down through its height apex.
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disc trajectory and nose down

Postby Toney » Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:07 pm

Sorry to raise up the thread again, but a quck question. I've read all the articles on this site (and great they are!), but I have a lingering question on this issue:

How is the upward trajectory achieved when nose down disc is the goal? Are you referring to an upward trajectory created by a hyzer throw that naturally sends the disc up (which I think you are), or a trajectory that is created by changing throw angles, such as in a throw with weight slight behind the plant foot (a technique I read about in the articles), or both? I suspect in both cases the nose down trajectory is achieved by correctly gripping the disc, index finger separated, other finger pads on rim, etc.

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Postby Blake_T » Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:30 am

it is easier to throw high and nose down with hyzer or anhyzer, but it is not wholly necessary.

your weight should nearly always be forward if you are planning to throw nose down.

if you use a low to high pull line (on any type of shot) and still get your weight forward, good extension, and a strong finish/follow through you can throw upwards while still being nose down. grip has little to do with it as long as yours follows fundamental rules.

it's exponentially harder to throw high/nose down with fast, wide rimmed drivers than with slower discs.

most players nowadays throw too low, to the point where they lose distance... a lot of that is the product of the discs they learned with.
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