Tuning the epic

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Re: Tuning the epic

Postby mark12b » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:46 pm

Dogma wrote:I'd like clarification on this too. The rule states:

802.01 Discs Used in Play
C. Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics. This rule does not forbid inevitable wear and tear from usage during play or the moderate sanding of discs to smooth molding imperfections or scrape marks. Discs excessively sanded or painted with a material of detectable thickness are illegal.

Since tuning is intended to alter flight characteristics, I read it as illegal. However, if you hit a tree, then bend your disc back to the way it was, isn't that just returning it to its original characteristics? Paging Chuck...


the way i see it, there's not a single pure ideal flight for any given disc. each mold has a whole range of flights that fall within "original flight characteristics" -- and tuning doesn't generally make a disc go outside of that range. the rule doesn't forbid all alterations, it just forbids those that would make a disc fly abnormally.
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Re: Tuning the epic

Postby Smoke » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:51 am

mark12b wrote:
Dogma wrote:I'd like clarification on this too. The rule states:

802.01 Discs Used in Play
C. Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics. This rule does not forbid inevitable wear and tear from usage during play or the moderate sanding of discs to smooth molding imperfections or scrape marks. Discs excessively sanded or painted with a material of detectable thickness are illegal.

Since tuning is intended to alter flight characteristics, I read it as illegal. However, if you hit a tree, then bend your disc back to the way it was, isn't that just returning it to its original characteristics? Paging Chuck...


the way i see it, there's not a single pure ideal flight for any given disc. each mold has a whole range of flights that fall within "original flight characteristics" -- and tuning doesn't generally make a disc go outside of that range. the rule doesn't forbid all alterations, it just forbids those that would make a disc fly abnormally.


Couldn't it also be argued that the "original flight characteristics" for The Epic call for the disc to be in the same shape as when you bought it?

You go to the store and buy an epic, when you get it it's flat. Just like any other disc, no bends, curves nothing, it's flat. That would be my interpretation of "unaltered". Then you take it to the course and bend the shit out of it, altering it away from it's original shape and form, to make it fly a different way. Seems pretty straight forward there. There would be no argument if I bought a Champ Beast and bent it in half and threw it. That would be altering the beasts flight pattern, I don't see how it's any different.

As for the abnormal flight part. I have not seen a single disc be able to come close to mimicking the flight pattern of an Epic. No where have I seen or heard of a disc that is capable of doing a barrel-roll in mid air, flipping flat and then gliding 600+ feet. That seems to clearly define abnormal. Also giving more back up to the previous statement. That being the barrel-roll and 600ft glide is achieved by altering or "tuning" the epic.
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Re: Tuning the epic

Postby Jesse B 707 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:31 pm

Smoke wrote:
mark12b wrote:
Dogma wrote:I'd like clarification on this too. The rule states:

802.01 Discs Used in Play
C. Players may not make post-production modification of discs which alter their original flight characteristics. This rule does not forbid inevitable wear and tear from usage during play or the moderate sanding of discs to smooth molding imperfections or scrape marks. Discs excessively sanded or painted with a material of detectable thickness are illegal.

Since tuning is intended to alter flight characteristics, I read it as illegal. However, if you hit a tree, then bend your disc back to the way it was, isn't that just returning it to its original characteristics? Paging Chuck...


the way i see it, there's not a single pure ideal flight for any given disc. each mold has a whole range of flights that fall within "original flight characteristics" -- and tuning doesn't generally make a disc go outside of that range. the rule doesn't forbid all alterations, it just forbids those that would make a disc fly abnormally.


Couldn't it also be argued that the "original flight characteristics" for The Epic call for the disc to be in the same shape as when you bought it?

You go to the store and buy an epic, when you get it it's flat. Just like any other disc, no bends, curves nothing, it's flat. That would be my interpretation of "unaltered". Then you take it to the course and bend the shit out of it, altering it away from it's original shape and form, to make it fly a different way. Seems pretty straight forward there. There would be no argument if I bought a Champ Beast and bent it in half and threw it. That would be altering the beasts flight pattern, I don't see how it's any different.

As for the abnormal flight part. I have not seen a single disc be able to come close to mimicking the flight pattern of an Epic. No where have I seen or heard of a disc that is capable of doing a barrel-roll in mid air, flipping flat and then gliding 600+ feet. That seems to clearly define abnormal. Also giving more back up to the previous statement. That being the barrel-roll and 600ft glide is achieved by altering or "tuning" the epic.
ive seen a guy who throws the epic shot with a beat ass 9x firebird, that being said i dont think anyone in the world is throwing an epic 600 feet, 500 sounds unrealistic
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Re: Tuning the epic

Postby JHern » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:35 am

roman wrote:There are certain discs I throw that come out of the factory flat with some runs and domey with others. I don't really care for the flat ones, so if I happen to get my hands on some I just pour boiling water inside them while they're upside down and let the water cool. It brings the dome back out just how I like it. That's clearly in violation of that PDGA rule, but they can eat it for all I care. I'm just making sure all my molds are uniform and fly the same.


Interesting stuff. Does this work for all plastics or just certain kinds? I know a lot has been said about flat vs. domey Wraiths, and it would be good to know a technique for getting the dome back.

Also, I have a few discs whose domes are a bit beat up and now a tad lumpy (it is very slight, but you can see it when viewed in profile). Would this technique work to cure the lumps too?
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Re: Tuning the epic

Postby MR. WICK » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:26 pm

ive seen a guy who throws the epic shot with a beat ass 9x firebird, that being said i dont think anyone in the world is throwing an epic 600 feet, 500 sounds unrealistic



I have never thrown one 600 feet, 500 yes....once....maybee twice, 400+ yes. I have personally seen one thrown well over 600 feet. From hole 7's basket at Wickham Park, all the way to Burnside ave. and this guy was just playing around to see if he could get it to roll and glide. The farthest i have seen any disc fly. Never seen it done on a regular basis.
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Re: Tuning the epic

Postby kern9787 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:54 pm

JHern wrote:Does this work for all plastics or just certain kinds? I know a lot has been said about flat vs. domey Wraiths, and it would be good to know a technique for getting the dome back.


That's exactly what I was thinking of.
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Re: Tuning the epic

Postby Parks » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:32 pm

Jesse B 707 wrote:ive seen a guy who throws the epic shot with a beat ass 9x firebird, that being said i dont think anyone in the world is throwing an epic 600 feet, 500 sounds unrealistic


You don't know may outfielders that also golf, then. I know a couple people locally that can throw Epics near 500 feet, and these aren't world class overhanders.
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Re: Tuning the epic

Postby LaForce » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:13 pm

Bear Dunn throws bombs with the Epic. Fun to watch.
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Re: Tuning the epic

Postby readysetstab » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:08 am

i threw one about 500ft the other day on my first attempt with an epic ever (i'm a regular thumber thrower). i didn't even get it to flip over all the way for the glide. needless to say, its in the bag now. just for fun, though.
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Re: Tuning the epic

Postby Frank Delicious » Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:59 pm

If bending a disc is illegal then there is a guy around here who would get disqualified. He bends his discs all the time before he throws them, not to tune them but because it is his nervous habit.
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Re: Tuning the epic

Postby MR. WICK » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:21 pm

Frank_Delicious wrote:If bending a disc is illegal then there is a guy around here who would get disqualified. He bends his discs all the time before he throws them, not to tune them but because it is his nervous habit.


if you see it this way Bending = tuning, tuning = illegal. If I can't bend my epic he can't do this.
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Re: Tuning the epic

Postby Frank Delicious » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:09 pm

TeamTollandDG wrote:
Frank_Delicious wrote:If bending a disc is illegal then there is a guy around here who would get disqualified. He bends his discs all the time before he throws them, not to tune them but because it is his nervous habit.


if you see it this way Bending = tuning, tuning = illegal. If I can't bend my epic he can't do this.


That would be a problem for him, he has already cracked a few discs during tourneys because of this.
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Re: Tuning the epic

Postby some call me...tim? » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:38 am

Frank_Delicious wrote:
TeamTollandDG wrote:
Frank_Delicious wrote:If bending a disc is illegal then there is a guy around here who would get disqualified. He bends his discs all the time before he throws them, not to tune them but because it is his nervous habit.


if you see it this way Bending = tuning, tuning = illegal. If I can't bend my epic he can't do this.


That would be a problem for him, he has already cracked a few discs during tourneys because of this.


Would this happen to be a very well known, very highly rated player?
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Re: Tuning the epic

Postby Frank Delicious » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:01 am

It would not be. I don't even actually know who you might be referencing.
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Re: Tuning the epic

Postby some call me...tim? » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:05 am

Ahh, I thought you might have been talking about Schwebby. I think I've seen him tweaking his disc in some videos before throwing out some sort of crazy thumber.
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