150 Lovers

[marmoset]

I figured it might be good to have a general thread about all things 150.
I have a few questions and I didn't want to threadjack some of the other current threads, so...

1) I am looking for a fast overstable driver in premium plastic. Any suggestions? The few choices I found during my short search are:
Champ Firebird
Champ Banshee
ESP Avenger (I heard the ESP they used for these is not so great. Is this true? I don't think these qualify as true-overstable anyway)
ESP Flick (Is this the same bad blend of ESP?)

2) I am loving the Gazelle in 150. It is my workhorse but I get a little concerned about the 150 blend of plastic; it seems much less durable than my regular weight DX Gazelles. Has anyone else noticed this? Would the KC pro or Champ Gazelles fly roughly the same with added durability? I know it doesn't really translate well for the heavier ones.

3) I love the heavier version of XLs. How does the 150 version fare compared to the heavies? How does the Pro D hold up?

[BarrabusTheDiscGolfGnome]

150 champ teebirds are super nice, so are the 150 stars I'm told.

[death by hyzer]

i have never thrown the 150 esp avenger, but i do throw the flicks. out of my 2 150 flicks, the plastic feels like normal esp. oh yeah, it is a sweet disc!

[BIF13]

The 150 Avenger flies just like a normal weight Avenger with out having to muscle it (thank you Mr. Obvious, you're a life saver!), I like to throw one on the practice field to help with form. The Pro-D XL is rated 0 and it lives up to it, dead nuts straight but easy to throw and nice to watch fly!

[marmoset]

i have never thrown the 150 esp avenger, but i do throw the flicks. out of my 2 150 flicks, the plastic feels like normal esp. oh yeah, it is a sweet disc!

How HSS is the Flick? I have heard of people turning them over. I don't know how good their form was but I am looking for an 150 gram "extreme* headwind disc.

[black udder]

I think the firebird is the best headwind disc. The flick isn't far off though.

The star teebird excels in 150 class but I don't think you'd get much use from an avenger or XL with your distance. The star valk feels and flies better than either of them. If you're not throwing the avenger in wooded or rocky situations, it'll hold up just like any other disc, but if you do, supposedly it doesn't hold up. I traded mine to somebody else who has been throwing it for over 6 months and the flight hasn't changed, but he's not throwing it into trees or in wooded situations.

The teerex is also quite overstable as well as the Talon (although the Z talon is a beautiful disc, the plastic is crazy slippery).

You can also find champ 150 gazelles which seem pretty identical to the dx ones.

Strangely, all the champ teebirds I've seen/heard about are gummy while the champ sidewinders and gazelles are not. The sidewinder is actually a really good disc at 150 as well. It's almost effortless to throw it 230'-250'. It's also a pretty good uphill or anhyzer disc.

[Timko]

150 champ teebirds are super nice, so are the 150 stars I'm told.

Teebirds in 150 are a thing of beauty. I have a beat up champ that's a hyzer flip machine, and a new star that can hold all the lines of a heavy teebird.

[marmoset]

I fully agree about Sidewinders. I have a Star and it is impressively effortless to get 270-300' out of it. I think I am averaging about 330' with it but I have some spring cleaning to do in my form. After that hopefully I will be closer to 400'. Or even better, closer to 700'. Is it worth it to try a Champ or DX Sidewinder?

Has anyone seen a flat top Valk? Star or Champ, doesn't matter. I have a 169 pearlescent Champ Valk that super flat is almost impossible for me to get any HS turn out of (with a flat release). This would be perfect for my 150 bag. I grabbed the flattest Champ Valk that my PIAS had but it is still 1/8th to 3/16ths taller than my 169. Maybe my 169 is just a freak. Would it be worthwhile to try a Star in addition to my Champ? My PIAS has several x-outs but they have normal size domes.

Strangely, all the champ teebirds I've seen/heard about are gummy while the champ sidewinders and gazelles are not.

My Champ Valk is normal feeling Champ and my Champ Teebird and Leopard are gummy. I wonder if the wider rimmed discs like Sidewinders, Firebirds, and Valks need more filler so they end up being not-so gummy. When I think about the gummy Champs I have felt they were all smaller winged discs like Teebirds and under.

[SkaBob]

ESP Avenger (I heard the ESP they used for these is not so great. Is this true? I don't think these qualify as true-overstable anyway)
ESP Flick (Is this the same bad blend of ESP?)
3) I love the heavier version of XLs. How does the 150 version fare compared to the heavies? How does the Pro D hold up?

The ESP Avenger in dark blue is normal ESP, and will be more durable. Every other color is fragile.

The ESP Flick is normal ESP in every color, and FLXy in magenta.

The Pro-D XL is good Pro-D in every color I've bought it in (2 shades of blue and mustard yellow).

All 3 are good discs. I'd say the Avenger is comparable to an FLX XL in 160ish weights. The Flick is just fun on a stick, and the XL is one of the best control drivers in 150 class I've ever thrown

[black udder]

I fully agree about Sidewinders. I have a Star and it is impressively effortless to get 270-300' out of it. I think I am averaging about 330' with it but I have some spring cleaning to do in my form. After that hopefully I will be closer to 400'. Or even better, closer to 700'. Is it worth it to try a Champ or DX Sidewinder?

Has anyone seen a flat top Valk? Star or Champ, doesn't matter. I have a 169 pearlescent Champ Valk that super flat is almost impossible for me to get any HS turn out of (with a flat release). This would be perfect for my 150 bag. I grabbed the flattest Champ Valk that my PIAS had but it is still 1/8th to 3/16ths taller than my 169. Maybe my 169 is just a freak. Would it be worthwhile to try a Star in addition to my Champ? My PIAS has several x-outs but they have normal size domes.

Strangely, all the champ teebirds I've seen/heard about are gummy while the champ sidewinders and gazelles are not.

My Champ Valk is normal feeling Champ and my Champ Teebird and Leopard are gummy. I wonder if the wider rimmed discs like Sidewinders, Firebirds, and Valks need more filler so they end up being not-so gummy. When I think about the gummy Champs I have felt they were all smaller winged discs like Teebirds and under.

I've found the red and orange champ sidewinders to be the most overstable (if you can even say that about a 150g sidewinder). I have a 162g star that actually seems more understable, so I prefer the champs in 150g. In fact, I've left the star in the bag because it's flippier than the 150g stuff I have. I'd also try the star valk. For some reason, I really like the valk & teebird in star much more than champ plastic and the sidewinder in champ vs star. All the valks in star that I have have been fairly flatish compared to domey discs I've seen.

[freeus]

2) I am loving the Gazelle in 150. It is my workhorse but I get a little concerned about the 150 blend of plastic; it seems much less durable than my regular weight DX Gazelles. Has anyone else noticed this? Would the KC pro or Champ Gazelles fly roughly the same with added durability? I know it doesn't really translate well for the heavier ones.

I've got a pearly 141g KC Pro Gazelle that is holding up really well, actually it feels pretty close to Champ plastic. It is not nearly as flippy as you would think from the light weight; definitely more stable than a 150 DX Gazelle.

[marmoset]

...For some reason, I really like the valk & teebird in star much more than champ plastic and the sidewinder in champ vs star...

Nice. So I have all the right discs but in the wrong plastics! I have Champ TBs and Valks and a Star Sidewinder. Go figure .

Anyone try a Star Leopard?

I've got a pearly 141g KC Pro Gazelle that is holding up really well, actually it feels pretty close to Champ plastic. It is not nearly as flippy as you would think from the light weight; definitely more stable than a 150 DX Gazelle.

This is what I wanted to hear. I just don't want to pay $20 a disc. Too bad they don't make a 150 ZXL.

[keltik]

150 Leopard.....that is a tough one....but i'll admit i haven't tried it in star......my first driver (a la innova starter kit) was you guessed it a 150g DX Leo......and for me now it is a turnover hell bent roller.....and it's not really beat.....and i don't throw that far (250 ft cold with a teebird).....but if it's what you want give it a shot......i'm pondering a 168ish star leopard for my bag.....but i digress....150 Leo = fliptastic in my limited experience (you results may vary)

[marmoset]

I know that 150 DX Leos are mad flippy. my 169 DX leo god mad flippy super quick, even on underpowered throws. I know I don't have the cleanest form but this thing is seriously flippy. My 169 Star Leos are straight beef. I live at 2200' so take that into account, but my Star Leos do NOT turn when I throw a 320' shot with them. This is why I like them... and why I was wondering about them in 150. If they act identically in 150 then I think I might replace the Gazelles.

BTW, Keltik: if you throw 300' then a new Star Leo should be evenly stable to moderately overstable for you. And they still have that fantastic glide! I heavily recommend it.

New question:
It seems like most people throw 150 drivers but not mids or putters. Why is this?
I was throwing in 30 mph wind yesterday and my 150 Roc had way more action than my heavies but it was still manageable. I imagine it will be even more manageable if I ever learn how to play the wind.
My putt range increased dramatically when I used my 150 Aviar compared to my usual 172s... but I didn't do the putting in the heavy winds. Maybe that will be today.

[black udder]

I picked up a champ 150g leopard and found it more overstable than my sidewinders, so it didn't fit what I needed it for.

I don't throw 150g mids or putters primarily because they're so hard to find. I just got used to throwing the heavier mids and have just remained there. My mids are Discraft and they don't make much light stuff, so that's another big reason. I used to throw a 150g rhyno, but one day I picked up a 170g soft magnet and had such a great putting round, I used it until I lost it (left on a fairway after an extra drive - doh!). Since then I've moved over to the warlock & magic and just kept the heavy weight. I don't feel like I have any issues putting with them, although getting a little extra distance would be nice - I've always thought that was form though, since I see folks getting more distance than me with similar weights. The 150g putters do have more play in heavier winds though. I want to say even inside the 30' circle, with a headwind they would rise or fall in a tailwind significantly, whereas a solid shot with a heavier disc doesn't have as much play.