Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

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Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

Postby Coldpunk » Mon May 04, 2009 9:57 am

TD mentioned this at the St. Louis Open this weekend, but couldn't produce a rule book that had the rule in it. The '07 book didn't have it in there. Is this a rule, do I need to check everyone elses score too? If so this rule doesn't make any sense. I know for certain my score has been off in other events and I got penalized but not the whole card.
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Re: Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

Postby Timko » Mon May 04, 2009 11:30 am

804.03 Scoring

A. The player listed first on the scorecard(s) bears primary responsibility for picking up the group's scorecard(s), although any player may deliver it (them) to the first player. Players in the group shall rotate the scorekeeping responsibility proportionally, unless a player or a scorekeeper volunteers to score keep more and this is acceptable to all members of the group.

B. After each hole is completed, the scorekeeper shall call out each player's name. The called
player shall answer with the score in a manner that is clear to all players of the group and
the scorekeeper. The scorekeeper shall record that score and read it back, in a manner that is
clear to all players of the group. If there is any disagreement about the score a player
reports, the group must review the hole and attempt to arrive at the correct score. If the
group cannot reach consensus on the player's score, they shall consult 803.01 D

C. The scorekeeper shall record the score for each player on each hole as the total number of throws, including penalty throws. The round total shall also be recorded as the total number of throws, including penalty throws. The use of anything else (including the lack of a score) represents an incorrect hole or total score and is subject to penalty as described in 804.03.G(2).

D. Warnings and penalty throws given to a player for rules infractions shall be noted on the
scorecard.

E. At the end of the round, each player shall sign his or her scorecard indicating that he or
she attests to the accuracy of the score on each hole and the total score. If all the players
of the group agree that a hole score was recorded in error, the score may be changed prior to
the scorecard being turned in. Players whose scorecards are turned in unsigned accept
responsibility for the scores reported.

F. All players are responsible for returning their scorecards within 25 minutes after the
completion of a round. Failure to do so shall result in the assessment of two penalty throws,
without a warning, to each player listed on the late scorecard.

G. After the scorecard is turned in, the total score as recorded shall stand with no appeal, except for the following circumstances:
(1) Penalty throws may be assessed at whatever time the infraction is discovered until the director declares the tournament officially over or all awards have been distributed.
(2) If it is determined that the total score was incorrectly recorded, either by an error on a hole score or by an error in totaling the hole scores, including omission of the total score, the director
shall add two penalty throws to the correct total score. These penalty throws are not added when the TD (or an official designated by the TD, such as a course director) corrects a player's score for other infractions determined after this player had turned in an otherwise correct scorecard.

(3) Late Scorecard. See 804.03 F.
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Re: Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

Postby Steady 26542 » Mon May 04, 2009 12:16 pm

You need to make sure YOUR score is correct and that the score card is turned in within 25 minutes after the round is over. We had that happen at Worlds last year. Dude took off and forgot to turn in the card. Came screaming back 45 minutes later but everyone on the card was assessed a 2 stroke penalty. The guy begged to take all 8 strokes since it was totally his fault. Nope...

So, make sure the card is turned in on time. I always follow the guy with the card no matter if he says he's going to turn it in right away or not.
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Re: Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

Postby maks » Mon May 04, 2009 4:25 pm

Steady 26542 wrote:You need to make sure YOUR score is correct and that the score card is turned in within 25 minutes after the round is over. We had that happen at Worlds last year. Dude took off and forgot to turn in the card. Came screaming back 45 minutes later but everyone on the card was assessed a 2 stroke penalty. The guy begged to take all 8 strokes since it was totally his fault. Nope...

So, make sure the card is turned in on time. I always follow the guy with the card no matter if he says he's going to turn it in right away or not.

jeez that would blow...i bet he felt like crap after that
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Re: Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

Postby Steady 26542 » Mon May 04, 2009 9:27 pm

Yes, he felt terrible. He's a great guy too. The other guys were real cool about it. I'm sure that helps, still...
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Re: Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

Postby Fritz » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:22 pm

That's why I always have single cards at my tournaments. If you have one card with all the names on it, things like this can happen, which IMO is unfair.
If you forget to turn in your card, it's you that pays the price not your group, unless all the group members are on the one card. Then it's the responsibility of the group to make sure all scores are correct, and card is turned in.
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Re: Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

Postby Aubin » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:38 am

Coldpunk wrote:TD mentioned this at the St. Louis Open this weekend, but couldn't produce a rule book that had the rule in it. The '07 book didn't have it in there. Is this a rule, do I need to check everyone elses score too? If so this rule doesn't make any sense. I know for certain my score has been off in other events and I got penalized but not the whole card.


wait... someone else on your card had a scoring error, it was handed in on time, and everyone on the card got a 2 stroke penalty?!?!

that's weak. i know about the late card thing as others mentioned, but an error on one player's score is that player's responsibility not yours.
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Re: Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

Postby Steady 26542 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:17 pm

Aubin wrote:
Coldpunk wrote:TD mentioned this at the St. Louis Open this weekend, but couldn't produce a rule book that had the rule in it. The '07 book didn't have it in there. Is this a rule, do I need to check everyone elses score too? If so this rule doesn't make any sense. I know for certain my score has been off in other events and I got penalized but not the whole card.


wait... someone else on your card had a scoring error, it was handed in on time, and everyone on the card got a 2 stroke penalty?!?!

that's weak. i know about the late card thing as others mentioned, but an error on one player's score is that player's responsibility not yours.

The whole card does not get penalized. You are responsible for your own score, no one else.
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Re: Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

Postby Aubin » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:52 pm

Steady 26542 wrote:The whole card does not get penalized. You are responsible for your own score, no one else.



the original poster is saying that, because one person's score was not correct, his entire card received a 2 stroke penalty... all 4 players getting punished because one person messed up.
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Re: Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

Postby ChUcK » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:18 pm

Was the entire group on the same physical scorecard?

Even if they were, one player's incorrect score should only penalize that player. TDs inventing rules off the tops of their heads can be infuriating, and isn't allowed without specific permission from the Tour Director.

Any scores turned in late receive the penalty, so if the entire group is on the same scorecard that would mean penalties to all, like Frank said.

Are there really tournaments that keep scores in this manner? If so, that seems like a terrible way to do business, unless the tournament is only one round long. You would need to make up new scorecards each round for the different groupings, which sounds like a lot of work with numerous chances for transcription errors.
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Re: Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

Postby vonDrehle » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:23 pm

lol maybe I'm on a different planet but that is how all the tournaments do it around here.
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Re: Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

Postby some call me...tim? » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:50 pm

That's how Beaver State Fling was done.
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Re: Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

Postby Aubin » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:14 pm

what's the point? everyone sits in a circle and does math for 10 mins?

if it's some sort of 'keep everyone honest' thing, it's a moot point. Even if everyone adds everyone else's scores, the TD still has to add them anyhow, to check (and assess that multi-player penalty). Department of redundancy department.
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Re: Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

Postby Frank Delicious » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:37 pm

ChUcK wrote:Any scores turned in late receive the penalty, so if the entire group is on the same scorecard that would mean penalties to all, like Frank said.


me?

anyway, I got stroked for misadding my score card last year in a tourney and was the only one on the card to receive a penalty in the group. We were all on the same score card.
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Re: Two stroke penalty for other players scoring errors?

Postby Working Stiff » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:03 pm

I never scored it that way when I TD'ed. Only the bonehead who messed up his score got strokes. If there are people who are actually adding two strokes to everybody's score on the card, they are on a power trip doing it becasue the rule is vague and they can get away with it. There is no reason for everyone on a card to be responsible for everyone else's score, and giving a player a two stroke penalty becasue someone else on his card can't add is stupid. Stupid and pointless.
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