Rip

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Rip

Postby DiscCrusher » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:55 am

I've been practicing hard to improve my driving tecnique for the past few months after being frustrated for several years about my lack of D. I have greatly improved my form and I now throw with very little effort. I have increased my average D from 275-285' to 310-320' with my really good drives going around 330-340. I'm very pleased especially considering I am not having to use much power. My question is about the rip. When I used to throw shorter I would clinch down really hard at the hit, the disc would come out with a whole lot of friction and I would get very loud pop's as my fingers slapped together. Now when I throw, the disc comes out so smooth that It's as if I'm conciously releasing. Does this sound like a proper rip, or do you think I maybe subconsiously loosing my grip so that it comes out easily? And also I cannot exactly feel my grip naturally tightening at the hit as you have described, so at what point should I really beardown? Concurent with the pullthrough? I have one more question Blake, you mentioned in another thread that the throwing shoulder should start low and raise up a bit during the throw. Is it not important to keep the throwing shoulder on the same plane during the whole throw. Sometimes I still find myself turning over drivers that shouldn't when I try to pull thorugh hard and I'm almost 100% sure that it's because I lifted my throwing shoulder higher during the pull through. Much like a roller has your throwing shoulder above your off shoulder.
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Postby Weebl » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:20 pm

On the reachback, and pullthrough your throwing shoulder should be level with the other side, or slightly below the off-shoulder. On the follow through, keep your shoulders level (If you're throwing a flat throw), otherwise if you lift your throwing shoulder you'll have a wrist roll over, causing those drivers to flip due to off-axis torque. on the follow through, try to have your thumb nail pointing straight up. This is a nuetral follow through, and won't produce off axis torque if done correctly.

Snap is a hard thing to describe and/or teach. What helped me, was visualising my wrist's movements in the throw. When working on snap, use a putter or a midrange and do a static throw with 50% power so you can really feel the snap. On the reachback your wrist will be nuetral (In line with your forearm), as you pull it through it will start to close (Hold your arm out infront of you with the top of your have facing up, now make your wrist go limp. This is a closed position) infront of your sternum, and will finish closing about a foot past your chest. in the next foot your wrist travels you want your wrist to open up with as much snap* as possible (Think of snapping a towel, the faster your wrist cocks and snaps out, the better towel snap you get. Same logic in disc golf).
The way I go about applying it, is make sure i have a grip that almost locks the disc in my hand, so i can have a freely moving wrist without having my disc wibble wobble about. With this loose wrist, it will naturally close and open up at the right point, when starting to work on this use putters and mid-range discs so you can do it slower than you're used to driving, and work on tightening your grip right when your wrist opens up.

Blake, your input?
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Postby DiscCrusher » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:44 pm

Good advice, thanks Weebl.
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Postby Weebl » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:53 pm

Anytime, keep us updated on your sucess.
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Postby presidio hills » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:11 pm

if i understand you correctly you're concerned that losing the "pop" sound means your rip isn't proper... i've heard blake mention a bunch of times it's not a problem to not hear the "pop". i think certain throwing styles result in it, others don't, and it doesn't mean that your disc is going further or anything. sounds like your release is great if you feel like it's smooth and easy.

the shoulder thing, "fold over"... if your shoulders are on the same plane it doesn't mean that plane can't be angled. i think the lead shoulder starts lower and finishes higher is a regular hyzer throw that encourages things like the disc staying close to your body and proper elbow extension... i think... you can ask blake why it's a key to good form.

check out schweberger's drive in blake's throw analysis to see an "extreme" version of the "fold over". pretty much all the players do it, though... a video clip is worth a thousand words!
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Postby Weebl » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:23 am

For Hyzer throws, you are right. Keeping motion on the same plane conserves/delivers your energy most efficiently. For a flat drive , your shoulders should travel stay flat (on a horizontal plane)
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Postby Blake_T » Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:19 pm

as for the grip, if you aren't feeling it then you are entering the area near the rip too fast. accelerate at the end of the throw, not at the beginning. if you bear down at all it should be when you feel the disc leaving the pinkey.

i believe you are misunderstanding pull through vs. finish.

through the finish on a roller, the throwing shoulder drops.

through the finish on a hyzer, the shoulder goes upwards.

there is also a common misunderstanding of flat vs. straight.

"flat" throws and anhyzer throws are very similar.

straight throws and hyzer throws are very similar.

if you attempt to throw flat, you are likely throwing like 0.5 degrees anhyzer as you MUST break the plane of flat to actually be flat. this puts the nose slightly to the right of center and your disc will turn.

if you attempt to throw straight, you are likely throwing like 0.5-5.0 degrees of hyzer and flattening the disc up. this will give a MUCH lower tendency to have a disc turn.
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Postby DiscCrusher » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:04 pm

Thanks for the tips guys. I think that what was happening on the drives that I accidently turned over when attempting hyzer shots was actually me starting on the correct plane for a hyzer and then dropping my shoulder at the finish. I know I can do it right because I can make a sidewinder fly beautifully, I just have to keep it in my mind that the disc will turn on it's own and execute as if I'm throwing a left curve shot. I think that alot of my problem was just the fact that I was throwing drivers like beasts and flashes that used to be too overstable for me to flip up from a slight hyzer and I still had it in my mind that they would curve hard left. So I sometimes subconsiously come over the top at the finish. And that makes for some horrible shots especcially in the wind. These roll curves almost never come out no matter how high you throw them. I could see how after engraving proper tecnique this shot could still be usefull for <300' hard curves though.
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:51 am

So should you be able to hear the rip? Or just feel it?
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Postby Mark Brunner » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:26 pm

TexasOutlaw wrote:So should you be able to hear the rip? Or just feel it?


My take on the audible "pop" is that it doesnt necessarily have to be heard to be had. I can honestly say that I have thrown 450ft+ shots that had really no audible pop to them, and then 400-450ft shots that had a loud pop from the snap.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:00 pm

Im on the same boat, I throw 500', and the only time I really hear an audible pop is when I am driving a putter or a slower midrange. My form is not identical for these drives, but very similar. My best rips (530' or so) have never had an audiable pop.
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Postby Blake_T » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:33 pm

the pop sound is more depending upon the swing plane than the power on the throw.

for players like schweberger that use a large fold over, they will get a loud pop on nearly every throw.

for players that come "around" with the disc, they will only have a pop sound if they get a slip release.

as for rip, you don't really feel it. you basically feel the disc explode from your hand if you have good rip. there should be no pain or finger numbing (that is indicative of a slip).
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Postby DiscCrusher » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:56 pm

Good because that is how the disc comes out now, totally smooth. I am still building a callous on my index finger though right in the center of the pad, but that's probably just from squeezing on disc's so many times.
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:56 pm

Then I have a problem. When I hear an audible pop, many times I feel pain similar to stubbing your finger playing basketball. Any comments/suggestions?
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Postby Blake_T » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:47 pm

sounds like you are bringing the disc around your body.

simple fix = keep the disc closer to your chest.
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