phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Clothing for Disc Golfers, Shoes, Socks, Shirts, Hats etc...

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

Re: phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Postby the unwrinkled ear » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:39 pm

SkaBob wrote:
If it DOES work, you do nothing for it's acceptance to spout off angry little ranty bits when people question it.


angry little ranty bits? really? i'm a professional writer (yah, i get paid for it, holy shit!) and if i was gonna rant and/or get angry, trust me, the expression of anger would be palpable and the rant would tear a hole in your psyche.

but since everyone responded with what they think are peppy little zingers, i've got no need to argue. everyone made it about a question of belief, and ever since the enlightenment we've all known you can't argue about beliefs.

the purpose of this thread was to ask a question, to which no one but you has been interested in even responding with any intelligence, and that wasn't even close to being a response to the original question. so don't mistake my indifference to the fact that no one here seems to believe in these items efficacy with anger: i just don't feel the need to attempt to convert.

i have no problem boasting though. shit, i threw an ace today. 6th of the year. ya'll?
most recent Ace: 7/16/09: Chavez Ridge/ Dodger Stadium, CA, hole #6, Soft APX
the unwrinkled ear
Tree Magnet
User avatar
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 7:23 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Favorite Disc: Buzzz

Re: phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Postby SkaBob » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:10 am

the unwrinkled ear wrote:no one but you has been interested in even responding with any intelligence


Can you blame them? These type of products have been for sale for years on the 3am informercial circuit, and there are larger and more well founded studies showing a lack of efficacy than any sort of genuine benefit. Statistically speaking, it's far more likely that these are a placebo than actually being effective.

_I_ personally believe that the claims made about their benefits ARE snake oil pitches, I merely accept that deliberately placing yourself in contact with additional magnetic fields is likely to have SOME effect on your body.
I threw Wizards before they were cool.
SkaBob
Disc Whore
 
Posts: 3493
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:51 am
Location: Detroit
Favorite Disc: Comet

Re: phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Postby XvileX » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:15 pm

the unwrinkled ear wrote:
SkaBob wrote:
If it DOES work, you do nothing for it's acceptance to spout off angry little ranty bits when people question it.


angry little ranty bits? really? i'm a professional writer (yah, i get paid for it, holy shit!) and if i was gonna rant and/or get angry, trust me, the expression of anger would be palpable and the rant would tear a hole in your psyche.

but since everyone responded with what they think are peppy little zingers, i've got no need to argue. everyone made it about a question of belief, and ever since the enlightenment we've all known you can't argue about beliefs.

the purpose of this thread was to ask a question, to which no one but you has been interested in even responding with any intelligence, and that wasn't even close to being a response to the original question. so don't mistake my indifference to the fact that no one here seems to believe in these items efficacy with anger: i just don't feel the need to attempt to convert.

i have no problem boasting though. shit, i threw an ace today. 6th of the year. ya'll?


Not trying to pick on you in particular, but you stuck your nose out so I'm using you as an example. :mrgreen:

I love it when people claim to be very knowledgeable in language (Or in this case a professional writer), yet capitalizing the first letter of a sentence, which is one of the most basic rules of writing in any latin based language, seems to elude you.

If you're claiming to be a professional writer, yet can't use the shift key... I'm not even going to acknowledge your claim to 6 aces. Sorry man.

I'm not trying to start shit, I just saw a whole lot of irony in your post and felt like mentioning it. :D I mean, I'll give you credit. You did use a colon. That's high tech. :lol: :lol:

Edit: I know this is the internet, and that's the excuse I'd expect to hear. You don't need to defend yourself. You know - the whole arguing over the internet/Special Olympics and all. :wink:
XvileX
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:28 pm
Favorite Disc: Leopard

Re: phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Postby inthedrift » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:58 am

Wow. Too cool for school man.
inthedrift
Fairway Surgeon
 
Posts: 693
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:42 am
Location: Anchorage, AK
Favorite Disc: Firebird

Re: phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Postby RoomTenONine » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:23 am

the unwrinkled ear wrote:sure it's psychological. and i see what side ya'll are on.
but the basic science has been around a long time: some magnets and other metals create positive ions and dispel negative ones. it's your choice whether you want to believe in the psychology behind positive ions being better than negative ones.


As a scientist who's main non-research focus is to study how pseudo-science has infested our culture I HAVE to chime in here. I mean zero disrespect here and I'm simply trying to get the facts across.

These bracelets are complete pseudo-science bull in terms of the "movement of ions through the body". It doesn't work that way.

Magnetic metals do not "create positive ions" and/or just "dispel negative ones". Any magnetic substance has polarity, meaning an end where positively charged ions collect and where negatively charged ones gather at the other. When each magnetic object/particle interacts with another nearby magnetic object the like poles repel one another and the oppositely charged ends would attract to one another. The opposites attract because the positive ions "need" an electron to be stable and the negative ones need to ditch an electron to become stable.....thus they are attracted in an attempt to "settle down". This is a gross over simplification, but it should get the main idea across.

Additionally, organic tissue and the molecules that make them are not reactive to magnetic fields. Thank god because if they were we'd be all kinds of messed up from the natural and man-made magnetic fields that pass through us every day. You'd walk through a metal detector and pull apart if the majority of molecules were. Most natural magnetic particles are ferromagnetic in composition, meaning they contain iron...one of the few natural magnetic materials. The iron containing material are the ones most affected by a magnetic field (and the ones that can naturally create the strongest themselves). This is the kind of metal in these bracelets.

The only major iron containing part of your body is your red blood cells. However, the iron is completely insulated by the rest of the RBC and thus does not interact with magnetic fields/forces. If it did and your bracelet actually worked you'd have a collection of blood in your arm and your heart would be working over time. Bad.

The field created by these bracelets is so insanely small and weak it can't even "reach" the trace elements in your body that could possibly be moved. If these magnets were strong enough to actually affect your entire body (even though it contains near zero magnetically interactive molecules) the bracelets would be erasing your hard drive on you laptop, iPod, etc. You are just as well off taping some kitchen magnets to your body.

That said, these bracelets seem to "work" for some folks in the same way a placebo pill will. It is simply psychosomatic. The brain and its control of hormones is amazing and can have some amazing effects on how one feels. I agree that when people wear these, some of them will see benefits due to their belief in their effectiveness and thus a subconscious change in brain chemistry. If you really look at the science of magnetic fields and the type of magnets used in these bracelets you completely disprove the possibility that the bracelet's weak field has any real interaction with the body.
RoomTenONine
Fairway Surgeon
 
Posts: 848
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:11 am
Location: Penn's Woods
Favorite Disc: Sanny Q-Sentinel

Re: phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Postby XvileX » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:40 am

Whoa.

I just reread my last post in this thread and realized that didn't come off nearly as gentle as I intended... I was trying to be a smartass/playful while getting my point across and not a complete asshat. :( I may have acidentally fulfilled this threads "little ranty bits." :mrgreen:

Sorry about that, carry on.
XvileX
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:28 pm
Favorite Disc: Leopard

Re: phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Postby SkaBob » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:00 am

RoomTenONine wrote:The only major iron containing part of your body is your red blood cells. However, the iron is completely insulated by the rest of the RBC and thus does not interact with magnetic fields/forces.


That was the only portion of their claims I was curious about...interesting to know that our blood cells are safe from magnets :)
I threw Wizards before they were cool.
SkaBob
Disc Whore
 
Posts: 3493
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:51 am
Location: Detroit
Favorite Disc: Comet

Re: phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Postby RoomTenONine » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:16 pm

SkaBob wrote:
RoomTenONine wrote:The only major iron containing part of your body is your red blood cells. However, the iron is completely insulated by the rest of the RBC and thus does not interact with magnetic fields/forces.


That was the only portion of their claims I was curious about...interesting to know that our blood cells are safe from magnets :)


Can you imagine if it were? You'd leak blood just walking by one, your blood pressure would swing drastically and your heart would fail pretty fast.
RoomTenONine
Fairway Surgeon
 
Posts: 848
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:11 am
Location: Penn's Woods
Favorite Disc: Sanny Q-Sentinel

Re: phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Postby Jsw » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:32 pm

RoomTenONine wrote:
the unwrinkled ear wrote:sure it's psychological. and i see what side ya'll are on.
but the basic science has been around a long time: some magnets and other metals create positive ions and dispel negative ones. it's your choice whether you want to believe in the psychology behind positive ions being better than negative ones.


As a scientist who's main non-research focus is to study how pseudo-science has infested our culture I HAVE to chime in here. I mean zero disrespect here and I'm simply trying to get the facts across.

These bracelets are complete pseudo-science bull in terms of the "movement of ions through the body". It doesn't work that way.

Magnetic metals do not "create positive ions" and/or just "dispel negative ones". Any magnetic substance has polarity, meaning an end where positively charged ions collect and where negatively charged ones gather at the other. When each magnetic object/particle interacts with another nearby magnetic object the like poles repel one another and the oppositely charged ends would attract to one another. The opposites attract because the positive ions "need" an electron to be stable and the negative ones need to ditch an electron to become stable.....thus they are attracted in an attempt to "settle down". This is a gross over simplification, but it should get the main idea across.

Additionally, organic tissue and the molecules that make them are not reactive to magnetic fields. Thank god because if they were we'd be all kinds of messed up from the natural and man-made magnetic fields that pass through us every day. You'd walk through a metal detector and pull apart if the majority of molecules were. Most natural magnetic particles are ferromagnetic in composition, meaning they contain iron...one of the few natural magnetic materials. The iron containing material are the ones most affected by a magnetic field (and the ones that can naturally create the strongest themselves). This is the kind of metal in these bracelets.

The only major iron containing part of your body is your red blood cells. However, the iron is completely insulated by the rest of the RBC and thus does not interact with magnetic fields/forces. If it did and your bracelet actually worked you'd have a collection of blood in your arm and your heart would be working over time. Bad.

The field created by these bracelets is so insanely small and weak it can't even "reach" the trace elements in your body that could possibly be moved. If these magnets were strong enough to actually affect your entire body (even though it contains near zero magnetically interactive molecules) the bracelets would be erasing your hard drive on you laptop, iPod, etc. You are just as well off taping some kitchen magnets to your body.

That said, these bracelets seem to "work" for some folks in the same way a placebo pill will. It is simply psychosomatic. The brain and its control of hormones is amazing and can have some amazing effects on how one feels. I agree that when people wear these, some of them will see benefits due to their belief in their effectiveness and thus a subconscious change in brain chemistry. If you really look at the science of magnetic fields and the type of magnets used in these bracelets you completely disprove the possibility that the bracelet's weak field has any real interaction with the body.


Very informative, thanks for typing that out for us. I don't buy into that crap for a second but I do understand the power of ''perception is reality''. So if someone THINKS it is helping them, especially when it comes to just 'feeling a little more energetic' or something like that - then maybe it will help them.
Image
Jsw
Steward Turkeylink: This ranks means I can't read or follow basic directions
User avatar
 
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:35 pm
Location: Mid Atlantic
Favorite Disc: DGR's Night-Owl

Re: phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Postby RoomTenONine » Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:50 pm

Glad someone appreciated it. :)
RoomTenONine
Fairway Surgeon
 
Posts: 848
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:11 am
Location: Penn's Woods
Favorite Disc: Sanny Q-Sentinel

Re: phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Postby stoneman » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:21 pm

Hey. I'm serious. The Tornado works, yo. Doubles your gas mileage...wurd.
stoneman
Fairway Surgeon
User avatar
 
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Postby RoomTenONine » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:25 am

stoneman wrote:Hey. I'm serious. The Tornado works, yo. Doubles your gas mileage...wurd.


Haha. Please don't make me post about fluid dynamics and air mass/density with regards to engine intakes.
RoomTenONine
Fairway Surgeon
 
Posts: 848
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:11 am
Location: Penn's Woods
Favorite Disc: Sanny Q-Sentinel

Re: phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Postby Roy » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:46 am

RoomTenONine wrote:
the unwrinkled ear wrote:sure it's psychological. and i see what side ya'll are on.
but the basic science has been around a long time: some magnets and other metals create positive ions and dispel negative ones. it's your choice whether you want to believe in the psychology behind positive ions being better than negative ones.


As a scientist who's main non-research focus is to study how pseudo-science has infested our culture I HAVE to chime in here. I mean zero disrespect here and I'm simply trying to get the facts across.

These bracelets are complete pseudo-science bull in terms of the "movement of ions through the body". It doesn't work that way.

Magnetic metals do not "create positive ions" and/or just "dispel negative ones". Any magnetic substance has polarity, meaning an end where positively charged ions collect and where negatively charged ones gather at the other. When each magnetic object/particle interacts with another nearby magnetic object the like poles repel one another and the oppositely charged ends would attract to one another. The opposites attract because the positive ions "need" an electron to be stable and the negative ones need to ditch an electron to become stable.....thus they are attracted in an attempt to "settle down". This is a gross over simplification, but it should get the main idea across.

Additionally, organic tissue and the molecules that make them are not reactive to magnetic fields. Thank god because if they were we'd be all kinds of messed up from the natural and man-made magnetic fields that pass through us every day. You'd walk through a metal detector and pull apart if the majority of molecules were. Most natural magnetic particles are ferromagnetic in composition, meaning they contain iron...one of the few natural magnetic materials. The iron containing material are the ones most affected by a magnetic field (and the ones that can naturally create the strongest themselves). This is the kind of metal in these bracelets.

The only major iron containing part of your body is your red blood cells. However, the iron is completely insulated by the rest of the RBC and thus does not interact with magnetic fields/forces. If it did and your bracelet actually worked you'd have a collection of blood in your arm and your heart would be working over time. Bad.

The field created by these bracelets is so insanely small and weak it can't even "reach" the trace elements in your body that could possibly be moved. If these magnets were strong enough to actually affect your entire body (even though it contains near zero magnetically interactive molecules) the bracelets would be erasing your hard drive on you laptop, iPod, etc. You are just as well off taping some kitchen magnets to your body.

That said, these bracelets seem to "work" for some folks in the same way a placebo pill will. It is simply psychosomatic. The brain and its control of hormones is amazing and can have some amazing effects on how one feels. I agree that when people wear these, some of them will see benefits due to their belief in their effectiveness and thus a subconscious change in brain chemistry. If you really look at the science of magnetic fields and the type of magnets used in these bracelets you completely disprove the possibility that the bracelet's weak field has any real interaction with the body.


So your saying kitchen magnets are the secret to disc golf success. Finally someone speaks the truth :lol:
Roy
Colonel Cleavage
User avatar
 
Posts: 2311
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:49 pm
Location: Practice

Re: phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Postby dgdave » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:31 am

I'll put in my 2 cents in acouple weeks. My cousin just became a dealer for phiten so I bought a beclace and braceletfrom him
"The Gauge may be the best disc ever"
-dgdave

Destroyer/Enforcer/PD/TD/XXX/Gauge/Suspect/Clutch/P2
dgdave
DGR Postmaster General
User avatar
 
Posts: 12100
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:22 pm
Location: Central OK
Favorite Disc: GAUGE!

Re: phiten vs. power balance bracelets

Postby discspeed » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:09 am

The Phiten website is 100% science free. As a science teacher this is exactly the kind of thing I am trying to protect my students from by teaching them critical thinking skills. When people lack critical reasoning ability and did not get a good science education in school they are easily fooled by what appears to be science. No data? No research? No explaination whatsoever of any scientific process by which this is supposed to work? It really bothers me to see a company taking advantage of people who lack knowledge is something I'm passionate about. In the future I will be using this as an example in my classes where I present some outrageous claims and we practice using the scientific method to critically examine the claims. As Bill Nye once said..."extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". Testimonials? C'mon people, surely your science teacher did you better than this! Oh well, a fool and his money...
discspeed
Most Gyroscopic Poster (MGP)
User avatar
 
Posts: 5465
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:02 am
Location: Clearwater, FL
Favorite Disc: Ion

PreviousNext

Return to Disc Golf Body Gear

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest