"Clearing the basket" question...

[RustyP]

I've searched, and as far as I can tell, clearing the basket after you make a putt isn't required by the PDGA during tournament play...just common courtest. Assuming that's correct, what would happen in the following scenario.

I make my putt...lets say it's at rest, hanging in the chains. I opt to not clear my disc, and the next guy decides to go ahead and putt. His disc hits my disc, knocking my disc from the chains to the ground.

The rules say that you haven't "holed-out" until you retrieve your disc from the basket, even though the group would agree that my disc was at rest in the basket. I'm assuming this means that you would have to take your putter where it falls, correct?

[domromer]

Thats why I always clear the basket, The one in a million time something happens you will never hear the end of it. On the flip side I always make people clear the basket before I throw. It just makes sense to me.

[RustyP]

That's what I'm curious about...that one in a million chance. Seems like the PDGA rules don't speak directly on thing like this that aren't very likely to happen (and I can see why...we could think of "what if" scenarios all day long).

[Chuck Kennedy]

Read the rule on Interference. Once the disc is at rest in the basket, the action of another disc does not change its position. If the disc gets knocked out, you use the Interference rule to replace it in the basket. then, remove it to hole out.

[Dogma]

I thought clearing the basket was just a courtesy to those who hadn't putted yet. A disc in the basket, especially one hanging in the chains, could potentially interfere with the next disc thrown in.

That said, it annoys me when people clear the basket. I play with a guy who even in casual rounds will often go get his disc after he putts even if it's lying flat in the basket. The problem is he doesn't announce that he's doing it so I'll set up and be about to release my putt, and suddenly there he is running in front of me saying "let me just clear that out of there for you." I know I've missed way more putts due to having my timing thrown off and being irritated with him than I ever will from bouncing out due to hitting his disc.

[black udder]

That said, it annoys me when people clear the basket. I play with a guy who even in casual rounds will often go get his disc after he putts even if it's lying flat in the basket. The problem is he doesn't announce that he's doing it so I'll set up and be about to release my putt, and suddenly there he is running in front of me saying "let me just clear that out of there for you." I know I've missed way more putts due to having my timing thrown off and being irritated with him than I ever will from bouncing out due to hitting his disc.

I guess the question for me would be why is it every a surprise for you? If you know he's going to clear it, why not just wait for him to clear it and then setup? If everybody cleared the basket and it was unusual for somebody not to, then you'd feel the other way

You could always say, "go ahead and leave that, please." To see if he will leave it.

I guess the point of my comment is that he's trying to help you. I've seen somebody putt into a basket with one lying flat and the disc dived in and bounced out off that flat disc. Even on the backside, if you hit on an angle and ring the basket, you could hit the disc and it jump out. There are far worse things to be irritated about

[curt]

i just have two quick things to add:

1. The second half of the A part of the interference rule (803.07.A) say
"Players shall not stand or leave their equipment where interference with the flight
or path of a disc could easily occur. The away player may require other players to mark their
lies or move their equipment before making a throw if the player believes that either could
interfere with his or her throw. "
To me this implies a duty to remove your disc from the basket. It definitely does not require, but implies it should be done.

2. Courtesy is required by the rules, and can be punished with penalty strokes. 801.01.C says
"C. Refusal to perform an action expected by the rules, such as assisting in the search for a lost disc,
moving discs or equipment, or keeping score properly, etc., is a courtesy violation."

I think there may be a basis for giving someone a courtesy warning for leaving a disc in the basket and refusing to clear it. However, because of exceptionally weak wording in the interference rule (I must admit that I am inclined to say I prefer the current wording to alternatives I can imagine. People will occasionally be in the way of other people and I think that the threat of a stroke would tend to cause more distracting motions.) it would take a repeateded refusal to remove and also not doing so at the request of the thrower.

[Dogma]

I guess the question for me would be why is it every a surprise for you? If you know he's going to clear it, why not just wait for him to clear it and then setup? If everybody cleared the basket and it was unusual for somebody not to, then you'd feel the other way

You could always say, "go ahead and leave that, please." To see if he will leave it.

I guess the point of my comment is that he's trying to help you. I've seen somebody putt into a basket with one lying flat and the disc dived in and bounced out off that flat disc. Even on the backside, if you hit on an angle and ring the basket, you could hit the disc and it jump out. There are far worse things to be irritated about

The part I left out is that he isn't usually doing it to be helpful. He can be a little self centered. Usually if he's clearing the basket it's because he's in a hurry to get to the next tee. "Let me clear that for you" usually has a touch of sarcasm in it. He's the same guy who curses, kicks his bag after a bad shot, smashes a disc into the chains when someone else is reaching to pull theirs out, and so forth. Unfortunately he's also the person who got the course installed, so what can you do. But you're right, it's my issue to deal with. Letting him irritate me affects my game, not his. And causes thread drift.

[black udder]

wow, yeah, that's a much different scenario. I'd guess that's it's one of many actions that irritate you when playing with him. A shame. I play with somebody who has anger issues and is trying to control it. It's difficult for some people. For your sake, I hope you can figure a way to deal with it because somebody else's poor behavior shouldn't negatively affect your game, you know? Good luck with that.

p.s. the guy I play with got the picture when some of his friends told him they didn't want to play with him anymore because it was embarrasing when he threw a fit.

[domromer]

wow, yeah, that's a much different scenario. I'd guess that's it's one of many actions that irritate you when playing with him. A shame. I play with somebody who has anger issues and is trying to control it. It's difficult for some people. For your sake, I hope you can figure a way to deal with it because somebody else's poor behavior shouldn't negatively affect your game, you know? Good luck with that.

p.s. the guy I play with got the picture when some of his friends told him they didn't want to play with him anymore because it was embarrasing when he threw a fit.

Oh man do I know someone just like that! it's a pain in the ass. He has a shitty round and acts like his dog just died. it's really weak and childish. I've tried every tact I can think of to get him out of that funk. At this point I'm about to say fuck it, you are ruining my way to relax and walk off.


Sorry for the thread drift.