NO SMOKING!

[nohr]

6.5 hours that is nuts how many people/holes were there?

[black udder]

Every tournament I have played in this season has had around 3 hour rounds after this point you can walk to your car or somewhere that smoking is allowed and light up.

Just saw a report on the Innerwebs about this last weekend's Seneca Soiree: 6+ hours for the men, 7.5 for the women.

Keep in mind, here was the days:

FORMAT: SATURDAY – 2 RNDS OF 18 HOLES (TEES AND PINS TBD)
SUNDAY – 1 ROUND OF 27 HOLES (TEES AND PINS TBD) W/A CUT TO THE TOP 8 PLAYERS FOR A FINAL 9 HOLES

I'm sure it was packed and 1 round of 27 holes might have taken awhile, but I'd be more willing to be that 6.5 hours was for the 2 rounds of 18 on Sat. I know when we play our relatively small events that it's a 9am-5pm event, but that's broken up into 2 rounds, lunch and other sundry things.

[some call me...tim?]

Are you talking about the Soiree event or Chuck's, BU? That was the same format of the one we've been talking about. The whole non-smoking thing is only applicable to Sunday, as the two 18's were public parks and the 27 was a private course. I know 6.5 hours sounds crazy, but I could believe it. It's a big course, with lots of tall grass and whatnot to hide discs. Plus, I'm guessing there were 5 to a teepad. At BSF, I think our rounds were ~4-4.5 hours long, and those were 18 holes with 4somes on manicured (albeit HUGE) fairways.

[chiggins]

I'm sure it was packed and 1 round of 27 holes might have taken awhile, but I'd be more willing to be that 6.5 hours was for the 2 rounds of 18 on Sat.

Newp. Sounds like it was a long, awesome round.

[black udder]

They said that the round of 27 had a cut-off for the final 9. Wouldn't that imply a break to smoke? so... still a long ass 18, but a break, then 9 more.

And I agree with some of the posters on that thread, 5 cards is insane. I'll side with the TD since I imagine Craig knows what he's doing, but boy - I would not like a 6 hour round. That would be boring as hell most of the time. I guess lots of time for talk. Certainly would be a game killer to those without a strong mental game (probably including me in that group).

[Fritz]

3 pages, not sure if it was mentioned... But what if there was an issued fire ban before the tournament? He did mention the fire marshal which suggests to me that there was a fire ban in effect. When those go into effect, cigarettes are also banned as well, because a careless drop, and smoldering butt could ignite the entire forest.
It could have been beyond his control, or if there was a fire ban in place from the start maybe he assumed the golfers knew not to smoke.

[some call me...tim?]

There was camping at the course, and fires (as well as smoking) were allowed in the camping area.

[Donkeypuncher]

The bottom line, it's private property and he can make rules as he sees fit. I'm a long time smoker so I feel your pain, but it's something you have to get used to as smoking becomes less tolerated. I'm used that stuff now with all these smoking bans lately. In all honesty, smoking is bad and I can't argue with rules like that. Cigarettes smell like crap, since I switched to black & milds I can see why a lot of people hate them.

[black udder]

for what it's worth, I talked to somebody recently that said it took 4 hours or so to play 27 holes at Seneca and he wasn't talking about a tournament! So I guess 6.5 for tournament play is right in line... wow. What a course!

[tim]

Seneca long tees to long pins, 7 hours is not an unreasonable tournament round. We did a 15-hole safari icebowl (more than 10,000') there back in the winter, and those 15 safari holes took ~6 or 7 hours... It's an amazing course.

As for the smoking on private land, I think the basic points are:

* Best case scenario: the TD announces the smoking ban ahead of time, pre-signup, so people can make arrangements
* Next-best case: If a late-breaking fire-warning comes up and it means that fire is a real hazard, the TD could have worked to provide a couple of "designated smoking areas" on the course (near holes 1, 10, 19...) where leaves were raked and sand-filled buckets would serve to minimize chance of fire. My guess is that the firepits in the camping areas were designated and safe for fire -- seems like similar areas could have been created on the course. Really, no matter what the reason for the smoking ban, this seems like a reasonable accommodation.
* Realistic scenario: players should have been unhappy and there should have been a rapid rise in snuff prices... or players with snuff could have just shared. This seems realistic.
* next-to-worse-case: Players go behind the TDs back and smoke against regulations, risking the course and the good will of the TD/landowner.
* worst-case: players burn down the course.

For what it's worth, I'm a non-smoker. I've never smoked a cigarette, and plan to keep it that way. However, I'm okay with others smoking on the course as long as they are courteous and try to stay downwind when they light up. However, I think it is inexcusable for players to disrespect the TD and smoke on the course against the rules -- and against the fire warnings.

I would rather have players drop out and take a refund instead of smoking against rules on the course. Many of the best courses in the country are on private land, and I think we should do whatever we can to encourage private landowners and private courses to remain available to the public... we need to respect the rules that are set.

[the invisible tree]

I hate cigarettes and am mildly allergic to them. I would love to play DG completely free of that noxious odor ever again. Nevertheless, a TD needs to make this kind of thing clear on the entry form. It's underhanded to not make full disclosure of this kind of stipulation and full refunds should have been in order to any smokers that did not want to deal with the BS.