2009 Worlds at Kansas City

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Re: 2009 Worlds at Kansas City

Postby Timko » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:13 am

jsun3thousand wrote:Disc golfers are holding the sport back.
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Re: 2009 Worlds at Kansas City

Postby curt » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:18 am

Quote:
They have exclusive rights to it, or he should do it as a courtesy?

Yes and yes. It's one thing to put up some clips. It's another to do a fully edited video story. I haven't asked nor heard whether the clip of Avery's final putt was removed because someone asked. It could easily have been a rep for Avery that asked it be removed, not the PDGA or Media Active (Worlds DVD producer), since there's also a Jenkins video being prepared for eventual sale.


What exactly is it that gives the PDGA exclusive right to footage of this event?

Before I start, I would like to say that I have never been to Worlds, so I don't know how these things are run and they are genuine questions.

This event is held in a public park, where spectators are welcome. As far as I can tell tickets aren't sold to spectators, you can simply show up and watch (if I am wrong it would make a difference). Does the PDGA pay for the exclusive use of these parks during the event? Are there signs up during the event prohibiting videography/photography? Are spectators allowed to use photography equipment during the event?

Since there is video and photography from these events, I am assuming that spectators are allowed to have photographic equipment at the event. Barring signed waivers (or signs at the event), I do not believe that the PDGA can legally claim exclusive rights to publishing video. And while the PDGA may think it is one thing to put up some clips vs a fully edited piece, I do not think this is actually the case. (though if the PDGA can actually make an exclusivity claim, then they could just look the other way for short clips).

p.s. - my background is in photojournalism, so if I am coming off harsh it is just me being a little defensive in an era where events are increasing stealing the rights of photographers to their images (I am not accusing the PDGA of this)
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Re: 2009 Worlds at Kansas City

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:44 am

It has more to do with commercial use of videos and possibly images. There's no restriction on taking them for personal use and even sharing. Not sure how YouTube sites are viewed in regards to rights approval if any. I didn't ask the PDGA if I could do the Majestic Final 9 video. However, I also didn't promote it on the PDGA website, primarily on our local club site. In the case, of Jenkins final putt clip, it could simply have been a request to remove it versus a threat. Perhaps the video was even shot by the Jenkins videographer who put it up as a teaser and then took it down?
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Re: 2009 Worlds at Kansas City

Postby willsfc » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:50 am

if you try to sell a dvd of worlds or any NT or major.. be ready to give the PDGA a percentage of the $$....

here is one i did of a skins round.. that has info on it.. tourney ended march 2nd.. got the vid up march 4th
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btOC1fBcdNY
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Re: 2009 Worlds at Kansas City

Postby Leopard » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:13 pm

Quote from a bro:

"My Worlds basically got ruined by this one round where I had to play with something called the R Factor."

me: "I've heard of that guy on the internet!"
keltik wrote:I think ZAM had the right idea.
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Re: 2009 Worlds at Kansas City

Postby curt » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:48 pm

Chuck,

thanks for the info, that makes a lot of sense.
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Re: 2009 Worlds at Kansas City

Postby Timko » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:24 pm

jsun3thousand wrote:Disc golfers are holding the sport back.
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Re: 2009 Worlds at Kansas City

Postby Disc Golf Live » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:43 pm

what'shisname wrote:that was fun to follow yesterday on twitter. found this video on youtube this morning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ORQwMQ9hIA


Over on the PDGA discussion board, the PDGA ED eventually acknowledged that this clip was removed at the request of the PDGA's Marketing Director, apparently out of concern such a clip would cut into their DVD sales. Just hold your excitement for a few months and get yourself a DVD for viewing next winter. Sheesh.
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Re: 2009 Worlds at Kansas City

Postby willsfc » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:59 pm

uhoh a final 9 video..there are lost sales!!!!!

seems like all they care about is money, not providing coverage...
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Re: 2009 Worlds at Kansas City

Postby Disc Golf Live » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:20 pm

Last year the PDGA put a few dollars into online coverage and got some nice postings on a daily basis but this year unfortunately no such effort was made. (Bringing to mind, of course, the adage about getting what you pay for.) They shouldn't be surprised if folks are disappointed. I'll be curious to see if the recent postings come to the attention of the marketing dept. They said they'll be putting up some video soon, but that does little for those jonesing DURING the event for anything timely and entertaining.

Will, if you've got stuff you'd like to share with folks across the country via Disc Golf Live video magazine, let me know. I like to mix my own stuff in with goodies created by others. (Can't have unauthorized tunes in their, though.). Do you have any plans to be around for the SN championships? That would be nice to feature.

Take care,

Joe
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Re: 2009 Worlds at Kansas City

Postby willsfc » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:23 pm

I will be at the Am championships, but I will be playing and i plan to be in the finals, lol.

If Not, I will get some video. I plan on getting some atmosphere shots and some of the awards.

Unfortunantly I won't be able to go to the SNPC, I plan on streaming a college football game that day.



Good thing for me is I know a lot of bands from around here and try to use their music as much as possible.. helps them get known (i hope)
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Re: 2009 Worlds at Kansas City

Postby pg043 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:52 pm

Chuck, I am not sure if you have any interaction with the PDGA media department or the group that is responsible for making the DVDs, but I have to say that I'm pretty disappointed to hear that the PDGA holds exclusive rights to video coverage and wont' let anyone else handle it. I understand that the PDGA uses Worlds DVDs as a way to raise money, and I can appreciate that. I have supported that effort by buying the DVDs from the last 3 World Championships. However, as time goes on and the sport gets bigger, it becomes more and more frustrating to see the lack of quality video coverage.

I don't want to be insulting to the people who I'm sure work hard on the Worlds DVDs, but they are really not very good. They use high quality cameras, but don't bother to show the layout of the hole or use any kind of graphic or animation to show where shots go. On the 2008 Worlds DVD, there are countless times when the camera man tracks a shot and just zooms in on it where it comes to rest on the ground. What does that show me if I can't see where it landed in relation to the basket? I know Dr. John and Adam are doing their best, but frankly I think their commentary sounds amateurish at best. I turn the sound off when I watch the 2008 DVD, because I don't want to hear them say "So and So is a great player, and he really shows it with shots just like this..." two dozen times in a row. Furthermore, I think the music is typically a little wacky and not "cool" by anyone's standards, and the random sections of the dvd like "not so great shots of the week" just feel cheesy to me.

Once again, I don't want to be insulting to anyone, but it's simply too frustrating. This sport is never going to grow if there is no quality media coverage. If even die-hard players like myself don't enjoy the DVDs, how are non-disc golfers supposed to enjoy them? The only reason I have embarked on this long rant about the negatives of the previous Worlds DVDs is because I always assumed that there was simply no one else willing to do them. To find out that the PDGA holds exclusive rights to them is very frustrating, because I'm sure there are many private media companies or even individuals who would love to take a crack at them, who could and probably would do a better job.
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Re: 2009 Worlds at Kansas City

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:39 pm

The PDGA puts out the bid each year and at least three or four video outfits have submitted bids each year. They get exclusive rights to shoot the DVD per the specs provided by the PDGA. The amount paid has been around $30K plus cost of reproduction and packaging. I'm just as frustrated as many with the lack of graphics including birds-eye views of holes and featuring hole design info so those watching know what's happening in the shots. I even did hi-res graphics for them in 2007 and 2008 that were never used.

Note that the Words DVD is intended to be more of an historical document for the sport and org than a cutting edge video more like some of the Chains trailers we've seen. As a member org, it's less appropriate to cover some divisions more than others although it's shifting slowly towards more Open coverage rather than see 20 divisions play the same holes in a Final 9 like Iowa in 2004.

Videos like the the ones Dodge does can't really be afforded by the PDGA. Dodge can do it because he splices together free footage from a wide variety of shooters and does the editing free for promotional purposes. I doubt the Media Active folks would want to or could coordinate volunteer shooters. Then you get into the sticky issue of why their shooters are paid and the volunteers aren't.
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Re: 2009 Worlds at Kansas City

Postby pg043 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:09 pm

I guess my point is just that, if the PDGA can't afford to hire anyone to do it in a "cutting edge" way, they shouldn't hog the exclusivity and prevent anyone else from doing it. I don't think money is the issue, though. I doubt the Chains people have a budget that exceeds $30k.
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Re: 2009 Worlds at Kansas City

Postby pg043 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:12 pm

By the way, do you happen to know how many copies of the Worlds DVDs are typically sold? I am guessing not too many, because we hardly ever sell them at the shop where I work. I have often wondered how much of a market there is for them.
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