I envy all those in western PA.

[roman]

A buddy of mine has been hyping up the courses around the Pittsburgh area for as long as I've known him, and when he offered to go on a road trip out there this past week I couldn't say no. Now I almost wish I didn't go. It basically opened my eyes to what a proper course should play like, and nothing in the Chicago area will ever seem the same any more. So yeah, all of you guys living out there, don't take it for granted! I've never played so many holes where I was HAPPY to get a 5 on after putting out. Here's the courses we hit up, and I recommend playing pretty much all of them.

PA
1. Moraine State Park (both blue and gold tees)
2. Knob Hill park (long tees)
3. Deer Lakes Park (shorts and longs)
4. Scheney Park (white tees)

WV
1. Woodshed
2. Whippin' Post

I can't say enough good things about these courses. There are definitely some memorable holes where after putting out you take your 4, 5 or 6 and say "wow, that was a cool hole".

Of course there were a few holes in the woods at Woodshed/Whippin' Post that were a bit too much for someone with my skill level and I won't lie, I lost it a few times. Brutal!

Those of you within a few hours drive of the area that haven't made a trip out there, I greatly recommend it.

[uNicedmeMan]

^^^
Were headed to Pittsburgh this weekend. I believe were going to play Moraine and Knob Hill, I'm pretty excited because I've only heard praises of these two courses.

I'm a Paw Paw veteran so I think I'll know what to expect, doesn't lessen the excitement at all.

[uNicedmeMan]

Moraine= super phat
Deer lakes= pretty phat

[bcsst26]

Wish I would have known you were coming out this way I could have met up with you. Anyways care to share why you liked Moraine better than Deer Lakes? I am the opposite but live right next to Deer Lakes so I might be persuaded easy. Did you get to play Knob? It is my least favorite of the three.

[black udder]

I heard Tyler St. Park was a good one, too.

bummer about the eye-opening though. Of course, you can do what one of the women players did. She had to move to the area, so she scouted out the best location for disc golf and found a place near there!

[uNicedmeMan]

Wish I would have known you were coming out this way I could have met up with you. Anyways care to share why you liked Moraine better than Deer Lakes? I am the opposite but live right next to Deer Lakes so I might be persuaded easy. Did you get to play Knob? It is my least favorite of the three.

Well I did post on 7/22 that I was coming up haha. Were you out at Moraine or Deer Lakes on Saturday? We encountered some friendly locals.

Anyway, we rolled 3 deep to Pittsburgh this weekend because we hadda free place to stay in Greentree. One of my friends had already played Knob and Shendley(SP?) before as he used to date a girl from Duquesne. I read on DGcoursereview that if you were able to play two courses it had to be Moraine and Deer Lakes, Knob was not on the same level. We intended to play some sort of guerilla glow at Shendley on Saturday night but lengthy draft lists in Southside took precedence.

Moraine vs. Deer Lakes
I really enjoyed both courses but I do put Moraine ahead of Deer Lakes. If Moraine had concrete or fly pads on all tees it would easily be a 5 out of 5 for me. Moraine had a real ball golf feel to it, the par 4's and 5's were long but fair. Deer Lakes had a few holes that were somewhat gimmicky IMO with questionable tee placements (the long tee on the water hole (15) is downright dangerous. I'm a fan of tough par 4+ holes but I think they should always have a line, a few holes at Deer Lakes are nothing more than a poke and a hope (more lines may appear to me the next time I play).

Favorite holes:
Moraine: 6,7,15,17
Deer Lakes: 3 had a badass drive to the bottom of the hill,4,5 i think if it's the short straight downhill,9,18

2's I got (we played both courses once from the longs):
Moraine: 1-first hole outta the car
Deer Lakes: 8,12

I'm looking forward to playing both of these again, I'll let you know when we come back up.

[roman]

I'll be back in the Pittsburgh area Wednesday night (August 5th), so I may be out playing those courses again Thursday and Friday.

[bcsst26]

Wish I would have known you were coming out this way I could have met up with you. Anyways care to share why you liked Moraine better than Deer Lakes? I am the opposite but live right next to Deer Lakes so I might be persuaded easy. Did you get to play Knob? It is my least favorite of the three.

Well I did post on 7/22 that I was coming up haha. Were you out at Moraine or Deer Lakes on Saturday? We encountered some friendly locals.

Anyway, we rolled 3 deep to Pittsburgh this weekend because we hadda free place to stay in Greentree. One of my friends had already played Knob and Shendley(SP?) before as he used to date a girl from Duquesne. I read on DGcoursereview that if you were able to play two courses it had to be Moraine and Deer Lakes, Knob was not on the same level. We intended to play some sort of guerilla glow at Shendley on Saturday night but lengthy draft lists in Southside took precedence.

Moraine vs. Deer Lakes
I really enjoyed both courses but I do put Moraine ahead of Deer Lakes. If Moraine had concrete or fly pads on all tees it would easily be a 5 out of 5 for me. Moraine had a real ball golf feel to it, the par 4's and 5's were long but fair. Deer Lakes had a few holes that were somewhat gimmicky IMO with questionable tee placements (the long tee on the water hole (15) is downright dangerous. I'm a fan of tough par 4+ holes but I think they should always have a line, a few holes at Deer Lakes are nothing more than a poke and a hope (more lines may appear to me the next time I play).

Favorite holes:
Moraine: 6,7,15,17
Deer Lakes: 3 had a badass drive to the bottom of the hill,4,5 i think if it's the short straight downhill,9,18

2's I got (we played both courses once from the longs):
Moraine: 1-first hole outta the car
Deer Lakes: 8,12

I'm looking forward to playing both of these again, I'll let you know when we come back up.

15 is a love hate for me. From blues I usually use a dx teebird and from whites either hyzer a teebird or a roc. If you played deer lakes some more lines would open up. 14 is the long one through the woods. It took me a while but now I have my lines. The course is still pretty new so it is still in the works and they might clear some more trees out on several holes. I usually don't check the courses thread on here for some reason but probably have to start just to see if someone is going to be in the area. Hopefully I will catch ya next time. Glad you enjoyed them. I have to agree that knob isn't on the same level as Moraine and Deer Lakes. I didn't make it out on Saturday but was on Sunday.

[bcsst26]

I'll be back in the Pittsburgh area Wednesday night (August 5th), so I may be out playing those courses again Thursday and Friday.

Let me know I can usually make it out after work. Are you coming out for the pfdo? Is jppbkm coming along?

[roman]

jppbkm is actually getting married out there, which is why I'm going there. He's getting married on Sunday so we will be playing Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. I believe the plan is Moraine on Wednesday afternoon/evening, then Deer Lakes and Knob Hill on Thursday, and Seven Springs on Friday on our way to State College.

[roadkill]

! I've never played so many holes where I was HAPPY to get a 5 on after putting out. Here's the courses we hit up, and I recommend playing pretty much all of them.

PA
1. Moraine State Park (both blue and gold tees)
2. Knob Hill park (long tees)
3. Deer Lakes Park (shorts and longs)
4. Scheney Park (white tees)

WV
1. Woodshed
2. Whippin' Post

I can't say enough good things about these courses. There are definitely some memorable holes where after putting out you take your 4, 5 or 6 and say "wow, that was a cool hole".

All of these courses are challenging and will really demand you step up your mental game and course management skills. Personally The Woodshed is my favorite followed closely by The Whipping Post. Deer Lakes and Knob Hill are pretty decent. I'm playing Moraine for the first time this weekend at the PFDO.

I feel very fortunate living in Southcentral PA as there are many amazing courses within a few hours of me. Now that I travel all over the country and get to play in other regions I realized I've been spoiled. There are many great courses in PA,MD and DE.
Often I'll play a course outside my region that's highly regarded and it amounts to an average course in the Mid-Atlantic. Not trying to be a snob, I just know the course designers from this region have been working hard for many years making courses with true par 4s and par 5s that seem to be largely absent elsewhere.

[Chuck Kennedy]

I would agree with that post other than Paw Paw having fair versus luck prone par 4s and 5s plus 3s. The luck roughly averages out over an event so the best players still win there. But it's still too much luck versus skill, at least at the professional level.

[roman]

When I played Paw Paw, there were hardly any leaves on the trees yet. There were definitely fairways on those holes, even the obnoxious ones in the woods. If I missed my line, it was mostly my fault and not because the fairway was unfair. The only hole where I had problems seeing a defined path was hole 3 on the Whippin' Post (the only hole I ended up throwing a roller on). I'm sure when the woods get all grown in it's a nightmare on those holes

[uNicedmeMan]

I would agree with that post other than Paw Paw having fair versus luck prone par 4s and 5s plus 3s. The luck roughly averages out over an event so the best players still win there. But it's still too much luck versus skill, at least at the professional level.

I dunno about all that. The gauntlet is really the only hole without much of a defined line and even then it still has one.

[Chuck Kennedy]

I agree that there are routes on most holes, just not wide enough routes on several holes or visible enough to make a skillful throw. On the newer course, it's around hole 10 or 11 where you throw across a ravine and up to the right where the initial shot is relatively straight forward then the second shot is all luck whether there's a route or not.

If 2/3 of players of the skill level a hole is designed for can't get to the landing area or pin a throw, it's a route that's still too narrow. The Gauntlet is probably too narrow and maybe the hole after Circles either 5 or 6 uphill. I think hole 4 on Whipping Post had a bunch of trees removed but the ones that affect route the most were left there seemingly just to randomize the results of throwing thru there.

There are other issues like crossing fairways 1/10 and 8/9 which violates design rule 101. I also don't think the holes hava as much creativity as they might have had on Woodshed. Other than hole 2, all of the holes are pretty much completely in the woods or completely in the open. This would be the perfect place to have combo holes where you throw 250 thru the woods into the open and then break to the left or right for another 200 feet. And vice versa.

Paw Paw courses get great reviews more due to their jaw dropping beauty than fundamental aspects of design. But being fun to play and beautiful are important aspects to a popular course. If I lived nearby I wouldn't stay away but just use discs I didn't mind getting beat up.