Dave's Drives (new killer vids 2/2)

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Re: Dave's Drives (New vids 8/13/09)

Postby dgdave » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:29 am

I do know the altitude does have an effect, but my recent gain into 410+ pretty consistantly has come from some tweeks in my grip and changing my timing. I was in the 410 range once in a while for a long time, but still getting 380-400 consistantly for a long time. I'm also got more confindence I'm gonna hit it every time and its going to go where I want it to. That has helped a lot.
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Re: Dave's Drives (New vids 8/13/09)

Postby Jeronimo » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:41 am

Well, altitude is more of a symptom rather than a root cause of longevity of disc flight. I know you know this and i'm restating it anyway but its air density that generates lift. Altitude just happens to affect the density of air, but so would air composition.

On my part it might be confidence, i'm not certain i'm going to perform my technique as perfectly as I know I can, every time. It definitely messes me up. It's my greatest flaw in my game.
I am dumb.

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Re: Dave's Drives (New vids 8/13/09)

Postby BLURR » Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:20 am

Dave...just watched the vids...and something I noticed is during your reach back you do almost a 45 degree angle down reach and then level it out as you start coming through. You might try keeping the disc a little more level.
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Re: Dave's Drives (New vids 8/13/09)

Postby dgdave » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:23 am

I tried this for a while a year or so back, and everything came out super low and with a ton of OAT. It also screwed up my drive for quite a while.
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Re: Dave's Drives (New vids 8/13/09)

Postby Bradley Walker » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:10 am

dgdave wrote:I tried this for a while a year or so back, and everything came out super low and with a ton of OAT. It also screwed up my drive for quite a while.


Dave is correct. His reach back properly hinges his shoulder joint.
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Re: Dave's Drives (New vids 8/13/09)

Postby dgdave » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:49 am

Bradley Walker wrote:
dgdave wrote:I tried this for a while a year or so back, and everything came out super low and with a ton of OAT. It also screwed up my drive for quite a while.


Dave is correct. His reach back properly hinges his shoulder joint.


Wow, I didn't even know that :)
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Re: Dave's Drives (New vids 8/13/09)

Postby Bradley Walker » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:38 am

It is something that I am correcting in my throw as we speak. As a result of seeing myself on the slow mo video. I was really curious why my chest looked so "up" or "out" as the disc passed my chest, and the disc was even striking my chest as it passed. The, the disc in the snap position seemed so "popped out" from my chest. Even though the snap was correct, it just looked odd.

Blake had always told me for the reach-back to work correctly the arm must, "hinge" into the reach-back position. The arm does not come "across" the shoulder level, typically the arm is swung up slightly from below to the level position, and the right shoulder will actually "fold" and drop slightly at the farthest point of the reachback as the shoulders coil. As result the shoulder joint is properly hinged where the upper arm is underneath the shoulder joint through the pull.

If you try both pull backs, one with a level plane and one where the disc swings up from below it is immediately apparent there is a tremendous difference in the way your lead shoulder becomes loaded. In the straight back position there will be a need to open the lead shoulder on the finish, or "come over the top" slightly".

In the hinged position the disc can be pulled slightly below the lead shoulder with the shoulder more static. In the position the chest is more "over" the pull line. The throw feels much more linear, and the hips can swing clear without a massive foot pivot that is necessary with the truly flat flat throw that requires a much more rotatory finish. An "across" pull back will create turn over torque that will become worse the power you apply to it. The hard you throw, the more likely the disc is to flip when you did not intend it to flip.

The hinged position is much more suited to hyser power, and if the pull of the arm is kept under the shoulder joint properly creates no torque to flip the disc. There are only a hand full of good players who do *do not* hinge the arm going back. Feldberg nearly touches his knee with the disc as he swings under, as he exaggerates his hyser style. Walt Haney does it with a tiny little dip of his shoulder (you really have to look for it). You can also look a Schweberger, Russell, or just about any European player. Many start with the disc in the forward "primed" position and swing under the max reachback.

I could not throw a real nose down hyser until I started hinging under and not across. I started with practicing hysers with the hinged under pull back, (as will most likely result when you start as your hand will most likely be in the wrong position if you have been throwing with the arm reaching back across the shoulder joint). Now I can throw nearly every shot with my arm pull hard under and through, as a I have begun to couple my snap direction with the new plane. All of a sudden I can throw hard and stuff is not flipping, even into the wind. My finish is much more under and through, instead of across and around which, since my foot pivot is so poor has always slowed down my finish.
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Re: Dave's Drives (New vids 8/13/09)

Postby Bradley Walker » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:55 pm

When the disc is brought in (forward) it is level.

The arm is hinged under at the shoulder joint going back.

Brian Schweberger
Image

Feldberg is the king of the swing under arm hinge (his is very exaggerated):

Image

Image

Image

Image

You might check these pages and compare them to Dave's form...

http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/analysis/ronrussell.shtml

http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/analysis/brianschweberger.shtml
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Re: Dave's Drives (New vids 8/13/09)

Postby dgdave » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:47 am

I posted my vids on DGCR and wanted to see what people thought.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/sh ... php?t=6701

I don't know why, but it kinda bothers me. I want to justify my tosses, but I don't think I need to. Oh well, I'm just venting.

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Re: Dave's Drives (New vids 8/13/09)

Postby chiggins » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:40 am

dgdave wrote:I don't know why, but it kinda bothers me.


Not sayin' I don't understand why it would bother you, but I mean... I thought the reponses were pretty funny in a "consider the source" kinda way. If they keep learning, someday they're gonna look back at their critiques and be really embarrassed.
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Re: Dave's Drives (New vids 8/13/09)

Postby dgdave » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:03 pm

I don't play much, so I've lost some D and I'm working on my rollers. Whatcha think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMJktdwKkIg or better resolution here http://img227.imageshack.us/i/zi60072.mp4/



Here's a pic for some reference

Image
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Re: Dave's Drives (This is how I roll)

Postby dgdave » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:12 pm

I also thought this was funny

Image
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Re: Dave's Drives (This is how I roll)

Postby JR » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:57 am

Pre cocked wrist good or bad for your D? How about planting foot farther away from the target and reaching back farther?
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Re: Dave's Drives (New vids 8/13/09)

Postby ManU » Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:10 pm

Bradley Walker wrote:In the hinged position the disc can be pulled slightly below the lead shoulder with the shoulder more static. In the position the chest is more "over" the pull line. The throw feels much more linear, and the hips can swing clear without a massive foot pivot that is necessary with the truly flat flat throw that requires a much more rotatory finish. An "across" pull back will create turn over torque that will become worse the power you apply to it. The hard you throw, the more likely the disc is to flip when you did not intend it to flip.


so there is no way I am going to comment on Dave's throw...cause he throws way further than me

but when I looked at the vids I noticed the "strange" reach back (and assumed, correctly, that someone would comment on it)

having read Brad's post (part quoted) it seems to me that part of my technique problem is pulling across "too level" along my shoulder line
I get a lot of oat...I keep telling myself I opening or rolling my lead shoulder over...but never knew how to correct it

hopefully Dave's video post will help me
I'm going to try some modification on my reach back angle

so thanks!!!
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Re: Dave's Drives (This is how I roll)

Postby maks » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:39 am

i havnt looked at your throws in a while but that last pic you put up mad me laugh so much.

keep up the good work!!! :)
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