Technique/Timing Drills: Filling in the Gaps

[Banzai]

Alright, so far, I've learned a ton from this site, but I've noticed that there seem to be some missing links in drills to teach correct technique.

Let me essplain ... no time to essplain, let me sum up.

Wrist Extension / Position Practice:
1. Blake's Snap Exercise: http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/articles/mored.shtml#snap
2. Bradley's Fling Exercise: http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6955&start=0
3. Bradley's Catch Drill: http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=34984#p34984

Elbow Chop / Late Acceleration:
4. Blake's Standstill Right Pec Drill: this is all over DGR, video can be found here http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9959

Shoulder Rotation
5. No Drills??? Good discussion here: http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6473

Hip Pivot
6. Black Udder's Exercise: http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8594
7. Keltik's Super Rad Hip Twist http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14245

Footwork
7. One-step, two-step, and x-step Right Pec Drills: http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9959
8. Bradley's Foot Pivot exercise: http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9494

Reach Back / Arm Pull
9. No Drills???

There are currently two big hurdles for me, in terms of getting the timing right. First, I have a hard time transferring hip power up into my shoulder rotation and then onto the disc. Second, I have trouble adding a full reach back and still keeping late acceleration.

These problems correlate to gaps in the exercises that the gurus on this board have dreamed up. Maybe I'm missing some drills and exercises. If so can anyone point them out? If not, can anyone come up with exercises that teach these skills?

[black udder]

Great all in one post.

I'd say that the shoulder rotation goes hand in hand with the right pec drill. What you're learning there is to sync your shoulder rotation with your accellerated pull. You get the right pec drill down, I would expect you can throw a couple hundred feet from that. With a start of 200' just from your right pec, it would seem simple to get another couple hundred from a reach back and x-step, right?

As for the reach back. Not much to practice there. People do it differently. You can reach straight back, bent back, pull through flat, twisted, etc. Different strokes for different folks. The only thing I'd advise is to try and keep it level as pulling from high or low could affect the outcome unintentionally. Even with hyzer or anhyzer, the disc is level with respect to the body position, you don't lower or raise your arm, you bend forwards or backwards.

[Timko]

I would add Bradley's Nose Down drill to your list above as well.

[noah]

Great all in one post.

I'd say that the shoulder rotation goes hand in hand with the right pec drill. What you're learning there is to sync your shoulder rotation with your accellerated pull. You get the right pec drill down, I would expect you can throw a couple hundred feet from that. With a start of 200' just from your right pec, it would seem simple to get another couple hundred from a reach back and x-step, right?

As for the reach back. Not much to practice there. People do it differently. You can reach straight back, bent back, pull through flat, twisted, etc. Different strokes for different folks. The only thing I'd advise is to try and keep it level as pulling from high or low could affect the outcome unintentionally. Even with hyzer or anhyzer, the disc is level with respect to the body position, you don't lower or raise your arm, you bend forwards or backwards.

I was up to 190' last night. I actually SAW nose down. It was amazing....The disc just kept going and going and didn't stall. I also think I felt snap. Unfortunately I don't think I had big snap and nose down together. I'll be working on that and my upshot this week. Do you think 230' is too much to ask right pec drilling?

[black udder]

Great all in one post.

I'd say that the shoulder rotation goes hand in hand with the right pec drill. What you're learning there is to sync your shoulder rotation with your accellerated pull. You get the right pec drill down, I would expect you can throw a couple hundred feet from that. With a start of 200' just from your right pec, it would seem simple to get another couple hundred from a reach back and x-step, right?

As for the reach back. Not much to practice there. People do it differently. You can reach straight back, bent back, pull through flat, twisted, etc. Different strokes for different folks. The only thing I'd advise is to try and keep it level as pulling from high or low could affect the outcome unintentionally. Even with hyzer or anhyzer, the disc is level with respect to the body position, you don't lower or raise your arm, you bend forwards or backwards.

I was up to 190' last night. I actually SAW nose down. It was amazing....The disc just kept going and going and didn't stall. I also think I felt snap. Unfortunately I don't think I had big snap and nose down together. I'll be working on that and my upshot this week. Do you think 230' is too much to ask right pec drilling?

I honestly don't know exact distances. I know that when I throw for a short pin (around 200') I don't have much reach back at all and I'm trying not to over throw the pin. From a stand still with reach back, I can get to 300' or better and I've heard folks throw 450', so I would expect that your distance would be comensurate with your success at the basics, snap, weight forward, nose down, weight transfer, torso rotation, follow through and finish.

[Banzai]

I guess what I am saying is this:

Everyone knows how to rotate their shoulders, and people generally can figure out how to reach back. But the key is to have these contribute to the power of the throw without F-ing up what you've already built.

For example, with no body rotation at all from the right pec I can get out over 100' easily. This is all from elbow chop and wrist extension. If I'm trying to build from the hit back, the goal then would be to add shoulder/torso rotation to that and have it contribute to the throw. What's the easiest way to learn how to time elbow chop with shoulder rotation so that you are faced up to the basket at release?

Here's an idea for a drill:

After already working through Blake's wrist exercise, stand with hips in line with target, hand at right pec, no disc. You want the back shoulder slightly lower than the front shoulder, or even. Now swing the shoulders back to around 90 degrees away from the line. Keep your hips stationary -- namely, in line with the target! Swing shoulders back around to being in line, elbow chop, while swinging shoulders to be faced up to target. Experiment with timing so that the elbow chop/wrist gets the most benefit from the shoulder momentum.

One thing I've learned from messing with this is that the elbow chop needs to be aimed out at around 10 or 10:30 rather than 12:00 in order for wrist extension to be online with the target. Another thing I learned is that you can actually feel how late the elbow chop should be relative to the shoulder/torso rotation in order to generate power. Too early and it's all arm.

After that, you can add in hip pivot to contribute to the shoulder rotation/elbow chop/wrist extension sequence you have. Trick is: if you've done the above correctly, you've already practiced having your hips be in line with the target while the shoulders are still 90 degrees away. This translates easily to feeling how hip pivot can lead torso/shoulder rotation. Before, I was throwing with them simultaneous.

Maybe this is just one stage of the right pec drill, but I haven't seen it made explicit. Just a sample of the kind of thing I'm looking for. I think with this exercise, and then the one-step, two-step, and x-step right pec drills, one could reasonably build a very solid throw, (timing included!) from the right pec.

The next step is to add in a reach back without f-ing up what you've already built. And *that* problem is way beyond me. Left pec drill? Etc?

EDIT: I've added the Bradley's nose-down catch drill.

[Frank Delicious]

stickied by request.

also just a plain great post.

[noah]

I guess what I am saying is this:

Everyone knows how to rotate their shoulders, and people generally can figure out how to reach back. But the key is to have these contribute to the power of the throw without F-ing up what you've already built.

For example, with no body rotation at all from the right pec I can get out over 100' easily. This is all from elbow chop and wrist extension. If I'm trying to build from the hit back, the goal then would be to add shoulder/torso rotation to that and have it contribute to the throw. What's the easiest way to learn how to time elbow chop with shoulder rotation so that you are faced up to the basket at release?

Here's an idea for a drill:

After already working through Blake's wrist exercise, stand with hips in line with target, hand at right pec, no disc. You want the back shoulder slightly lower than the front shoulder, or even. Now swing the shoulders back to around 90 degrees away from the line. Keep your hips stationary -- namely, in line with the target! Swing shoulders back around to being in line, elbow chop, while swinging shoulders to be faced up to target. Experiment with timing so that the elbow chop/wrist gets the most benefit from the shoulder momentum.

One thing I've learned from messing with this is that the elbow chop needs to be aimed out at around 10 or 10:30 rather than 12:00 in order for wrist extension to be online with the target. Another thing I learned is that you can actually feel how late the elbow chop should be relative to the shoulder/torso rotation in order to generate power. Too early and it's all arm.

After that, you can add in hip pivot to contribute to the shoulder rotation/elbow chop/wrist extension sequence you have. Trick is: if you've done the above correctly, you've already practiced having your hips be in line with the target while the shoulders are still 90 degrees away. This translates easily to feeling how hip pivot can lead torso/shoulder rotation. Before, I was throwing with them simultaneous.

Maybe this is just one stage of the right pec drill, but I haven't seen it made explicit. Just a sample of the kind of thing I'm looking for. I think with this exercise, and then the one-step, two-step, and x-step right pec drills, one could reasonably build a very solid throw, (timing included!) from the right pec.

The next step is to add in a reach back without f-ing up what you've already built. And *that* problem is way beyond me. Left pec drill? Etc?

EDIT: I've added the Bradley's nose-down catch drill.

This is something I need to work on. I am basically getting the disc out to 190' with just the right pec drill and no real rotation. This and weight transfer are the two next things after making sure your grip is correct. Like I've said before, I want to make a video that explains all this and doesn't leave all these unstated assumptions on the table. The paridigm I'm working on is GRIP, RIP, TIP.

Grip - Wrist extension, Nose down, finger position
RIP - Right Pec Drill
Tip - Weight transfer and uncoiling of body.

Maybe this won't pan out as I learn more, but I think this would be good.

[keltik]

Reach Back / Arm Pull
7. keltik's super rad hip twist viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14245 (shameless plug)

basically there is no reach back per sé it's all initiated with your foot work and hip/shoulder rotation

[Bradley Walker]

I am going to add two others:

Phil Drill
Straight back leg/ standstill drill

Let me work on it a bit.

[Banzai]

Bradley, send me links to the description/video of the drills and I'll put em in the original post.

[Bradley Walker]

I forgot the Tree to Tree drill.

[Timko]

I forgot the Tree to Tree drill.

I practice that all the time.

[Bradley Walker]

I forgot the Tree to Tree drill.

I practice that all the time.

Please describe it.

[keltik]

I think Further was implying that his game is very similar to mine in that every time he plays it feels like he hits every damn tree on the course. Thus throwing from tree to tree to tree to tree to tree to tree......