Hanging Put

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Re: Hanging Put

Postby chiggins » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:11 pm

IdahoLefty wrote:
ferretdance03 wrote:
IdahoLefty wrote:...10 out of 10 times you hit the basket where the disc is and its going to roll away...

Obviously not, that putt stuck. Plus, for the disc to hang like that on the nub, you figure it can't be perfectly vertical outside the plane of the basket, so technically, a fraction of the disc actually is in.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


That's the fact. By the rules, and by identical explanations I've heard from folks on both coasts, the criteria for the wedges and hanging putts is the same:

1.) the disc is at rest in/on the basket
2.) Some portion of it is at rest inside the cylinder of the basket, even if it's just a tiny fraction.

That's a made putt. Heh, I dunno if it's worth four eye-rolls though, it happens about as often as a flipped coin landing on its side, and the rule's the same for everyone.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby curt » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:54 pm

The real issue in this situation is basket design. The rule is well written: anything supported by the lower entrapment section or the chains is extremely clear wording. The only time it gets sketchy is extremely rare circumstance that can be fixed by redesigning baskets. Remove the nubs and make the holes smaller so discs can't get wedge in. This removes any vague possibilities from the rules.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby stoneman » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:07 pm

Is it really that rare? I've seen two hangers like that, and probably at least 6 shots wedge in the side (two were my own). I've only been playing for 2 years. One of mine was for an eagle on a long par 4...as I ran to the basket, my disc squeezed on IN to the basket. :D
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby tito » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:09 pm

I once had my soft magnet wedged in the side of the basket, but a few seconds later it squeezed itself out... I didn't count it, but it was pretty sweet. Had it not popped back out, I woulda counted it.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby SkaBob » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:16 pm

wedging happens a lot more often than hanging.

I still remember the video of Ziggy Beirekoven waddling as fast as he could to try and get his CE firechicken out of the basket after wedging in, only to have it fall out before he got there... :lol: I give him grief for running like a duck every time we talk about that!
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby juju » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:39 pm

No need to run. Just ask your group if the disc is "at rest". If they say yes, it doesn't matter whether or not it falls out.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby SkaBob » Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:16 pm

that rule that got posted that you didn't read wrote:The disc must also remain within the chains or entrapment sections until removed.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby juju » Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:54 pm

Guess you didn't read 803.07B:
If a disc at rest on the playing surface or supported by the target is moved, the disc shall be replaced as close as possible to its original location, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. If a marker disc is moved, the marker disc shall be replaced as close as possible to its original location, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. (If the two meter penalty is in effect See also 803.08 C and D for movement of a disc above the playing surface.)
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby tito » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:00 pm

so if a disc is at rest supported by the target (wedged in the side of the basket) and is then moved (squeezes itself out of the side of the basket) then it must be placed back in it's original location (wedged back into the side of the basket)???? wha??
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby curt » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:35 pm

or supported by the target


could you please explain how the discs state of being "at rest" has anything to do with this statement?

In your first post, you said if the group declared the disc at rest, then you're good. Technically, the rule you cited has 2 options 1. at rest on playing surface OR 2. supported by the target.

The verb in the rule is "is moved" not moves. To me, this word choice implies an external force acting upon the disc, not it moving simply because it wasn't wedged in well enough to stay put. Also, this rule is the second part of a section on interference. The first part clearly states that interference is something that players, spectators, and animals are capable of. Gravity, on the other hand, doesn't make the list.

Couple this with the rule previously cited about the disc staying in the basket UNTIL it is removed (not put back in there because it moved of its own accord after being declared "at rest" ) and the precedent set by the 2 meter ruling on a similar situation, and I think the intent is clear that if a disc moves from a precarious situation, then the place it stops is where it should be played from.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby tito » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:48 pm

I think you got it curt.... I was just playing devil's advocate there
So, for example: if a bird swoops in and snatches your disc from the fairway (playing surface?) or wherever your lie is before holing out, you are to return it to that spot and play on!
makes sense to me
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby tito » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:53 pm

curt wrote:
or supported by the target


could you please explain how the discs state of being "at rest" has anything to do with this statement?

In your first post, you said if the group declared the disc at rest, then you're good. Technically, the rule you cited has 2 options 1. at rest on playing surface OR 2. supported by the target.


At rest on top of the target but not in the tray, or a leaner on the base would both fit in this category ("supported by the target") I believe.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby JimW » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:02 pm

http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=31713

According to Chuck Kennedy the group can declare a wedged/hanging disc at rest and the player isn't then required to run and grab it in case it falls, due to the interference rule.

That seems like something that really needs to be specified in the rulebook or at least the Rules Q&A.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby MIdiscgolfer » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:48 pm

I think the rule is very clear once your disc is "at rest" that is your lie. Nothng that happens after that changes your lie. Not some casual walking by an picking it up, not a gust of wind, not the vibrations of some fat guy running to get the disc out of the side of the basket, nothing. If the disc is slowly squeezing itself back out of the basket and never came to rest then running up and grabbing the disc is interference. Think about it does it really make sense to have one person lose a stroke because he can't sprint down the fairway as fast as the next guy? If the disc was stuck up in a tree and while you were looking for a rock to knock it down i fell out of the tree and landed in the basket would you count it? if you thow a disc and it lands partially hanging over a sea wall and while you're walking up to it it falls in the water is it OB? The point is that once a disc has stopped moving under it's own power if it moves again then something else moved it and should be returned to it's original lie.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby stoneman » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:39 pm

If it fell out of a tree and landed in the basket? Hell yes I'd count it. lol :lol:
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