Divisions by Ratings

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Divisions by Ratings

Postby Timko » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:11 am

Lets say that a guy just joined the PDGA. He has a rating of 950, based on a tournament he played on his home course (2 rounds), where he played out of his mind.

Now that guy is registering for another event. Can the TD decide to allow that person to play in Intermediate, since his rating is only formed by 2 rounds?
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Re: Divisions by Ratings

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:21 am

The TD can't decide this but the player may request a waiver to play Intermediate from Dave Gentry, Tour Director at the PDGA office. tourmgr@pdga.com
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Re: Divisions by Ratings

Postby Timko » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:25 am

Thanks Chuck.
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Re: Divisions by Ratings

Postby jnecessary » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:51 am

I can't believe it is that big of a deal...He could probably learn a few things from playing MA1 and then just step down if he tanks it to DFL or something.
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Re: Divisions by Ratings

Postby Timko » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:03 am

No, this was just conjecture. Not an actual case.
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Re: Divisions by Ratings

Postby jnecessary » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:25 am

My bad....who would have thunk it was a hypothetical when someone starts the post..."Lets say that..."
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Re: Divisions by Ratings

Postby black udder » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:52 am

jnecessary wrote:I can't believe it is that big of a deal...He could probably learn a few things from playing MA1 and then just step down if he tanks it to DFL or something.


if he played and did the same thing, he's where he should be. If he tanked, he won't have a problem stepping down next time because his rating will drop, right?
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Re: Divisions by Ratings

Postby Timko » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:35 pm

I guess here's my point: You're making a person pay money to lower his average. 2 rounds is not enough to really rate someone on. For him to play intermediate in the situation above, he's probably going to have to play advanced at 1 tournament and realize he's in the wrong division. Even if he thought he should be in Intermediate, he has to play advanced because his rating puts him there. This is almost like reverse sandbagging.
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Re: Divisions by Ratings

Postby jnecessary » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:56 pm

Furthur wrote:This is almost like reverse sandbagging.


I think that is what I do...I played advanced all year with an 898 rating, reversed 2 divisions.

He should be whereever he feels he is going to be challenged.

So while it is a hypothetical scenario it is based on a real person, no? It just seems like a lot of work to get an 'ok' to play INT when he could play MA1 and then regardless of if he should be there or not he gets a chance to see the talent levels and how they vary from division to division.
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Re: Divisions by Ratings

Postby Timko » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:19 pm

Based on a real person. His 1st tournament. Played 950 rated golf on his home course, and said he played above his skill level. He mentioned that he would play Intermediate instead of Rec, and someone said that he couldn't play Intermediate if he wanted to.

It seems like a decision a TD should be able to make, but I understand the pdga not wanting to put the responsibility on the TDs. You are right; it's a ton of work just to get knocked down a division. It's probably much easier to pay money, lower your rating, and play where you should, but it seems that 2 rounds aren't exactly an accurate representation of a person's skill, so placing someone into a division based on this information isn't exactly fair to the competitor.
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Re: Divisions by Ratings

Postby chiggins » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:40 pm

Furthur wrote:It's probably much easier to pay money, lower your rating, and play where you should, but it seems that 2 rounds aren't exactly an accurate representation of a person's skill, so placing someone into a division based on this information isn't exactly fair to the competitor.


I dunno man, ferretdance just won advanced at Codorus with a 930 rating. ('Course, he's a bad-ass and all heh.)

I think at any tourney I've been at, east coast or west, someone who just shot a lights out tourney like that and tried to come back to MA2... you'd be hearing bagger! and move up! for miles around. Why not play a couple more and see how it goes?
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Re: Divisions by Ratings

Postby black udder » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:48 pm

I checked my ratings and based off courses I know and play, I shot well above (up to 965) my rating of (915). On courses I was unfamiliar with, I shot much worse, high 800's to around 930.

I suspect that what he'll have to deal with is that when he plays at home, he'll play well, but if he's on a course he doesn't play, he'll play worse. That's part of just playing better - knowing what to throw where, etc. I found that too often on the courses I didn't know, I'd throw a disc I believed would be right, but it wasn't - I'd get some unpredictable result or I'd think I could hit a space/spot/distance but really couldn't (or went past).

If you shoot 950 anywhere, that's pretty solid golf and you should be able to take that and complete in that division with most people. Dropping back, he'd probably destroy the competition or play down to them.
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Re: Divisions by Ratings

Postby jnecessary » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:08 pm

Furthur wrote:Based on a real person. His 1st tournament. Played 950 rated golf on his home course, and said he played above his skill level. He mentioned that he would play Intermediate instead of Rec, and someone said that he couldn't play Intermediate if he wanted to.

It seems like a decision a TD should be able to make, but I understand the pdga not wanting to put the responsibility on the TDs. You are right; it's a ton of work just to get knocked down a division. It's probably much easier to pay money, lower your rating, and play where you should, but it seems that 2 rounds aren't exactly an accurate representation of a person's skill, so placing someone into a division based on this information isn't exactly fair to the competitor.


I'm feeling you more now. It is more a problem with the system and not the situation. For example a couple fixes...If you did not establish a rating until you have 6 or 10 rated rounds. Or...If the division you played in was not regulated until you had 6 or 10 rated rounds to contribute to your rating.
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Re: Divisions by Ratings

Postby Timko » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:08 pm

chiggins wrote:
Furthur wrote:It's probably much easier to pay money, lower your rating, and play where you should, but it seems that 2 rounds aren't exactly an accurate representation of a person's skill, so placing someone into a division based on this information isn't exactly fair to the competitor.


I dunno man, ferretdance just won advanced at Codorus with a 930 rating. ('Course, he's a bad-ass and all heh.)

I think at any tourney I've been at, east coast or west, someone who just shot a lights out tourney like that and tried to come back to MA2... you'd be hearing bagger! and move up! for miles around. Why not play a couple more and see how it goes?


He may have a 930 rating, but he didn't play 930 rated golf.
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Re: Divisions by Ratings

Postby Timko » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:09 pm

jnecessary wrote:
Furthur wrote:Based on a real person. His 1st tournament. Played 950 rated golf on his home course, and said he played above his skill level. He mentioned that he would play Intermediate instead of Rec, and someone said that he couldn't play Intermediate if he wanted to.

It seems like a decision a TD should be able to make, but I understand the pdga not wanting to put the responsibility on the TDs. You are right; it's a ton of work just to get knocked down a division. It's probably much easier to pay money, lower your rating, and play where you should, but it seems that 2 rounds aren't exactly an accurate representation of a person's skill, so placing someone into a division based on this information isn't exactly fair to the competitor.


I'm feeling you more now. It is more a problem with the system and not the situation. For example a couple fixes...If you did not establish a rating until you have 6 or 10 rated rounds. Or...If the division you played in was not regulated until you had 6 or 10 rated rounds to contribute to your rating.


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