Hanging Put

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Re: Hanging Put

Postby MIdiscgolfer » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:48 pm

stoneman wrote:If it fell out of a tree and landed in the basket? Hell yes I'd count it. lol :lol:

What if it was lying on the ground and a gust of wind picked it up and flipped it into the basket?
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby stoneman » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:01 pm

Ditto. :lol:
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:19 pm

There are some critical points in these rules being missed. A disc can only be at rest on a playing surface or supported by the basket. Any other location, typically above the playing surface but not on the basket, is considered "live until the player gets there to mark their lie."

So, a disc at rest on the ground that gets blown into the basket gets replaced on the ground. A disc that falls out of the tree and into the basket is good IF the player has not yet gotten to the disc to mark it. If the player is there looking up and it falls out of the tree into the basket, it's too late and the mark would be placed under the basket for the player to tap out.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby curt » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:08 am

I think that one thing that could really help clear this kind of situation up would be a definition of the term "at rest" in the definition section. The phrase is used a lot in the rules, but is left up to the players to figure out what it means. Sure it seems pretty obvious on the surface. But there are at least two examples in the rules that are counter-intuitive to me (the water thing and the 2 meter thing.) Don't get me wrong, I believe both those rules are correct as stated, they just go against how I would define "at rest". Just something along the lines of "at rest: a disc that has come to a stop on the playing surface or supported by the basket. Once a disc is at rest, it should be replaced if it moves" in the definition section would completely clear up this problem AND remove the luck involved in getting there b/f it falls out. And if the rules committee determines they want wedges to have to be removed, then simply remove the phrase "or supported by the basket" from the definition.

(I think the scenario where wind picks up the disc and knocks it out of a basket after coming to rest is sufficiently rare that it shouldn't change the rules.)
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby Fullbag » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:49 am

MIdiscgolfer wrote:If the disc was stuck up in a tree and while you were looking for a rock to knock it down i fell out of the tree and landed in the basket would you count it?

I don't know about counting it but I'd definitely be laughing my ass off if I saw that.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:39 am

I think that one thing that could really help clear this kind of situation up would be a definition of the term "at rest" in the definition section. The phrase is used a lot in the rules, but is left up to the players to figure out what it means. Sure it seems pretty obvious on the surface. But there are at least two examples in the rules that are counter-intuitive to me (the water thing and the 2 meter thing.)

Already asked the Rules Committee a few years ago. They declined feeling that defining it might create more problems than "common sense" interpretations by the group. For example, there are "relatively at rest" situations where the disc is "safely trapped" in the chains on a windy day. The chains and disc will not stop swinging so the disc never really gets "at rest." However, the group eventually agrees the thrower can remove the disc to complete the hole since it looks like the disc is trapped for a long enough time, whatever that might be. That amount of time and what the disc looks like in there would be hard to define and is left to the group to judge.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby curt » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:37 am

Wow, those guys are good over at the rules committee (in all seriousness). Chuck, your explanation of that does make a lot of sense. I know they've had queries about the wedges and hanging putts before, it would be nice if they would weigh in on the subject in the Q&A. Given the way that shots that are essentially temporarily supported by the baskets are handled, I think it would be nice to have some direction from the committee. Currently, if you ask your group to declare it at rest, you're most likely going to get the answer "No way, you have to get to it before it falls out". Also, I think it presents an unfair advantage for players who read the message boards. You basically have to follow these discussions and understand your (Chuck) interpretation of the rules. [P.S. - I do agree with your interpretation and think that in competition it would appear gimmicky to audiences if someone had to sprint to the basket and it just feels unfair when someone misses by fractions of a second as the disc falls out.]
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:54 am

I agree about the running to snag a wedged disc being potentially unfair. My own process when that happens to my shot is to just move toward the basket at a normal pace. If it pops out before I get there, then I don't feel like it was really at rest or "in" anyway. If I get to it and it hasn't popped out, then I feel like it was at rest enough that holing out was justified. I think there's a higher likelihood that we'll see some good things with the rules update process occurring during next year.
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Re: Hanging Put

Postby Greatzky » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:15 pm

So Chuck,
Although you play the rule that way... You are saying that the actual rules allows your group to declare the status of the disc being "at rest" and thus you wouldn't have to run to get the disc out?

I just want to clarify this specific incident of the disc being on the lip of the basket(bottom part) or wedged as this WAS the original Question for this post.

I also believe that you need not be required to "run your butt off" to get a disc that might fall off the lip or wedge out if the disc is no longer moving by the force your exerted onto it or by the basket and is now "at rest" if even for a few seconds.
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