Wraith vs Illusion vs whatever Discraft has vs others

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Postby Jwt4412 » Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:42 am

G,

Using your scenario above... Let's say the disc is an Orion.

I have that disc.

Lay it out for me. No wind.
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Postby garublador » Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:01 pm

I find the Orion to be a very straight disc that is pretty nose angle dependent. When I throw my Orion I throw with a hyzer (maybe 15-20 degrees or so), level with the ground, perhaps at a very slight upwards angle (mostly I'm just trying to throw with the nose down) right at the target. I'd expect the disc to flip up to flat and either stay that way or track a tiny bit (maybe 5'-10') to the right and then land with minimal fade.

Also keep in mind that I'm, at the very best, an average intermediate level player, probably worse. I just happen to be very analytical.
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Postby Jwt4412 » Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:36 pm

Thanks.
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Postby krusen » Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:42 pm

Jwt4412 wrote:I have the power/strength... I have had people call it "viscious power" but my throws will lawn-dart to the left when I really throw hard about 190 feet out. My angles and target points are obviously wrong...


Sounds like you're trying to muscle the disc out there. You need sound technique, not strength to really huck a disc. You're probably getting very little snap on your release. Think smooth, fluid, fast...not hard.

I suggest you re-read the driving and distance articles.
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Postby Jwt4412 » Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:49 pm

Krusen,

I think I get confused by the vocabulary players use...

What is the difference between fast and hard?

How would you or do you pull through fast if it not hard?

I know I am close to a breakthrough, I just need that one "moment"...
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Postby Blake_T » Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:58 pm

smooth technique accelerates the arm faster than muscled technique because it is based upon an incidental whipping motion, which in 99% of cases, is much faster than trying to physically pull the disc through as hard as possible. e.g. the end of a whip moves faster than the end of a stick.
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:04 pm

I'm glad G responded; I was worried I had used incorrect terminology. But, I did mean what he said.

On the course, some people use the terms flipping up and turning over interchangibly. I actually use this site to check meanings.

I prefer hyzer flips to s shots, but it seems that the wraith gives me pretty consistent s's.
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Postby Jwt4412 » Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:07 pm

So it's more like whipping towel than say chopping a wall?
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Postby Blake_T » Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:21 pm

i have never found either of those to really describe it.

up until the moment before the disc rips, the power is from the legs.

THROUGH the rip of the disc and into the follow through, the power is in the hand/arm.

you can still throw 380' without pulling strong through the rip, but it's nearly impossible to go 450' without it.
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Postby twmccoy » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:18 pm

[/quote]

I have the same problem; sometimes I have to get advice as to how to throw a particular disc. I started getting crazy d with my wraith when someone told me to "quit muscling it" and throw about 15 feet of the ground. Also, I was adviced to TRY and turn it over, which made no sense to me until I did it. If you turn it over, it comes back straight then fades left.[/quote]

This worked out big time for me. I started throwing the wraith trying to turn it over and it flat out hauls ass. With the pro I actually can flip it over if I try. The CFR will bend right and then go dead straight. I love this disc more every time I throw it. It is so fast that even on imperfect throws you will still get decent distance. The key to this disc is the glide. That and the fact that its low speed fade is less sharp than an orc. Unlike the orc, the wraith will keep gaining yardage until it hits the ground. The orc just seems to decelerate and fall.
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Postby presidio hills » Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:36 pm

just so everyone knows...
the 169 S illusion i was talking about earlier is orange... which blake just stated is domier than other pressings of it (it still has very little dome, though) and thus not as overstable. i really believe this disc flies nicer than a CFR or Pro wraith. i think the wraith is just what EVERYONE has so they can all vouch for its awsomeness and post their thumbs up for it in this thread. seriously folks, try an orange S illusion before you think the wraith is the end all of consistent big D. S plastic is great stuff, too...
wraith shmaith :)
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Postby Weebl » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:31 am

more dome = earlier/more pronounced fade
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Postby presidio hills » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:41 am

Weebl wrote:more dome = earlier/more pronounced fade


well... it depends. i think the reason you say this is because with some molds, like the champion orc... the domier ones are more overstable. i think with other molds this isn't true, though. it depends how the plastic dries and whether or not it pulls the edge higher while creating the dome (making it more overstable)... or whether the edge stays the same height and the dome is created anyways (thus giving it more glide and a later fade). i think i'm correct in these statements...
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:09 am

Has the wraith been released in only one run? One thing I like about it is that everyone I've thrown has a similar flight path, no guessing at what this particular one is going to do.
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Postby twmccoy » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:24 am

TexasOutlaw wrote:Has the wraith been released in only one run? One thing I like about it is that everyone I've thrown has a similar flight path, no guessing at what this particular one is going to do.


For the most part you're right about this, but I have one hot pink 174g pro wraith that is more overstable than any of my others, including the CFR. The disc is still useful, but if I let up even a bit on it the thing goes way left.
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