Person on card always "cheating"

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Person on card always "cheating"

Postby tigel » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:26 am

There's is this kid, 19 or so that has played a lot tournaments I've been in. I've only played southeast missouri tournaments.

I ALWAYS get on the same card as him. I don't know if the TD has it in for me or what but I always do, at least first round. I don't know if this is "normal" for other tournaments, but every 4 or 9 holes, whoever was keeping score passes it to someone else. Usually i've done all 18 if I'm on top, if not, most people do every 9. I've seen every 4 once, but I wouldn't count on it.

When people have the card I ALWAYS do it with them and make sure they write down the right numbers. I'm good with numbers, and can remember. I'd rather not to, but I do it anyways. My concern is when I might miss count a hole or just remember mine, or maybe be far away when they are writing down the score to where I can't go up and check. What he does is when they ask what he got on said hole he WILL say one down what he gets if he's over par. I swear, everytime he gets a bogey he WILL say "par".

Then EVERYTIME I've called him out and told him, no. You got a 4 on that hole. This has been going on for 4 months (4 tournaments, and over 7 rounds together). What do I do? He plays the "Oh I forgot" card and gets away with it. I fear when others are keeping score they won't question him like I do.

Is there a rule that might address this? Possibly if you get called out enough, you get stroke penalties? Or even kicked out? Is it up to the TD to decide this rule? I'm curious how to handle it. Basically all I can do is make sure MY score is right and play hard.


(Oh, and if there's a rule against threatening pieces of shit like the above about lying about scores, I think I have a lot of stroke penalties to catch up to.. I think he leaves the tournaments scared from what I tell him every tournament. I'm not a violent person, but the last tournament I did get pissed and almost punched him in the face. He clearly knows what he's doing, its just a matter of him getting caught doing it. Clearly he wont do it when a TD is around (why would a TD be on the course) and the TD can't just take the other players word for it... so he's a little bitch.)
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Re: Person on card always "cheating"

Postby Dogma » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:36 am

There probably isn't much you can do. Some people are just jerks.

If you feel you have to do something, next time you get put on the same card with him you could wait till your group is all together at the first teebox and then say loudly to him, "Hey kid, every tourney I've played with you in the past you've lied about your score on most of the holes. Will that be happening again today?" It may not change his behavior, but it would alert the others on your card to pay attention. The others in your group may not appreciate the tension it could cause though.
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Re: Person on card always "cheating"

Postby curt » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:58 am

There are really only 2 recourses that I can think of within the rules, both will have to involve the TD and would probably be very tough to accomplish.

1st, if you could convince the TD he is doing it on purpose, there's a rule in there somewhere about intentionally circumventing the rules of play, which has a pretty stiff penalty.

2nd, if you really want to stick him with some penalty strokes, you could wait until after you turn the cards in to report the errors you find. let's say he gets 4 bogies and reports them all as pars, when you hand the card in say, "hey kid, there's 4 holes on here, that I'm pretty sure you reported incorrectly. Basically, you'd have to get most of the card to agree with you, then the TD would have to change those 4 scores to bogies and add a 2 stroke penalty for each offense. **DISCLAIMER** This strategy is not going to win you any friends and is much more likely to get you on people's bad side, b/c this sport is much more interested in making friends than following the rules.

Another option that may help him remember is that the rules actually require you to report a number, not "par". Insist that he says a #, it will at least make him think about it a little.
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Re: Person on card always "cheating"

Postby Dogma » Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:35 am

Despite my suggestion earlier, I don't think there's much you can do without making an unpleasant scene.

Keep in mind that it doesn't have to be your job to police him. Maybe you'll enjoy the game more if you can find a way to ignore it.

If you're the one with the card and you simply can't bring yourself to write down a false score, just ask him what he shot. When he says "three," say "no, you threw four" and move on. If he wants to argue you can list his shots for him. Even if it happens on every hole, all you'll be doing is recording the correct score, and that's very different from having a conflict about his behavior overall. After a few holes maybe you'll even be able to laugh to yourself a little as it happens, which would help your game.
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Re: Person on card always "cheating"

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:28 pm

You nip it in the bud right away. If you're talking about PDGA events, the player can and will be subject to suspension for cheating if it is shown to be a pattern beyond just one event. If you're the scorekeeper or just another player in the group that notices a problem, you don't tell the player what they shot, you ask the player in question to tell the group, shot for shot, how they got to that score if there's a question so they correct themself. You can give someone a pass if they say they "forgot" once. But if it's becoming a pattern, you can give them a warning per 801.01C. Next violation is a one throw penalty. If it continues, the player can be DQ'd by the TD. The TD can also inform the group the player is in the following round to watch for scoring issues if it appears to be an ongoing issue.

On courses where there's a fair amount of woods or OB areas, everyone in the group needs to pay attention to walking along with other players to check their lies and watch their shots. Even though this is required by the rules anyway, it's even more important where players might be known to take advantage of situations where others are not watching.
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Re: Person on card always "cheating"

Postby Solty » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:36 pm

or you could keep score like the USDGC...and EVERYONE carries and keeps score for everyone in their grouping...
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Re: Person on card always "cheating"

Postby JHern » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:49 pm

A horse's head in his bed ought to work...
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Re: Person on card always "cheating"

Postby chiggins » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:46 am

I think in addition to the question of what to do about the cheater, you gotta worry about what you're gonna do about you. He's in your head ruining your rounds. I've played with a couple guys that made me swear I wasn't going to do monthlies again if I ended up on the same card, but I also figure that it's another obstacle in the game that's gotta be faced and learned. If you can figure out 1.) how to let the cheat know that he's on a short road to a DQ, and 2.) detach enough from it that you can still focus on your game and enjoy your round, you win. But if this guy's gettin' you to spend 3 hours walkin' around angry, that's no good.

tigel wrote:(Oh, and if there's a rule against threatening pieces of shit like the above about lying about scores, I think I have a lot of stroke penalties to catch up to.. I think he leaves the tournaments scared from what I tell him every tournament.


I dunno about PDGA rules, but there's certainly laws. That'd be assault if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: Person on card always "cheating"

Postby JHern » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:49 pm

I've only played in a tournament once, and everyone seemed honest (but it was in Canada). Here in California I meet and play rounds with all sorts of people who I will hear very often distorting or exaggerating things, like where they are relative to par in the round (like saying their at par even though I know they're 4-5 over), or how far they can drive (I typically have to subtract 100' from their quoted distance to get actual distance), etc.. So I'm not surprised to hear stories like this one, even though when I hear such things they don't count for anything.

But this stuff would rub me the wrong way, and I agree with the previous poster: this distracts you from playing your best golf. I know it would distract me, take me out of my zone, etc.. Next time, call them on it. Be nice, and maybe say something disarmin, but tell him that if he doesn't shape up you'll have to complain to the TD. I believe disc golf should try to hold itself to a higher degree of honor when it comes to competition. Letting this stuff go is not going to help achieve that aim.
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Re: Person on card always "cheating"

Postby DiscZombie » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:08 am

Id make sure everyone know that he cheats. I wouldnt even talk to him. :!:
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Re: Person on card always "cheating"

Postby Golf-Distance » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:22 am

Solty wrote:or you could keep score like the USDGC...and EVERYONE carries and keeps score for everyone in their grouping...



And if he gets the score wrong there's penalty strokes involved.

I hate people like that, and I also hate being the guy to call "foot fault". :| Kinda makes me wish it was like skateboarding, do or die with no room to cheat.

I don't blame you for getting testy with him. If we (3) were on the same card I wouldn't try to give you a penalty for cursing somebody else that was cheating. :D



Some what related note: I kept playing with somebody (one of my golfing friend's friend) and he would walk in front of others way too much. I would tell him "you're messing up my birdie attempt because you're parked for bogey" and stuff like that, but, he just didn't get it (he's been playing a year or two, he knows whats up by now, and none of us do that crap).. . . . . .

I got tired of this and eventually one round I hit an early guardian tree. The disc was laying maybe 10 feet behind the tree. He walks past the disc (and the tree) and 30 seconds later gets hit about ear level right across the back of the head with a 12x Roc.

:lol: We laughed our asses off. :lol:

It wasn't exactly intentional, but, there wasn't a 'head's up' given either. :D ('head's up' only applys to discs that go off the fairway) :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Person on card always "cheating"

Postby discraft » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:29 pm

I would keep his score in my head and after each hole correct him.If he dosen't agree count his shots for him.He will have to stop because he won't get away with it anymore.
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