Forehand Callus Marks

[Jazziator]

Ok Ive been playing Disc golf for almost 2 years I average 300 to 350 on my forehand drives. I use the control grip middle finger in the inner rim with my pointer finger stacked against it, I point my thumb forward like mark ellis' grip. I threw about 36 holes today and I dont know if its because I threw a lot today or if its my grip/snap issues, but I have the padding underneath my pointer finger callused and it gets sore. I also have a callus on the side of my pointer finger where the disc slides off, the calluses look like this ( _ | )shape. I do throw a 171 esp Predator for almost all drives and it does have a sharp inner rim.. Is there any way to prevent this or does my form need to be tweaked?? I never get a sore elbow just a sore shoulder. I also find that if i try the Power Grip and really wedge that disc between the webbing of my thumb and Pointer finger it slides off harder and hurts more, I am also concerned it could be costing me distance.. Any help would be greatly appreciated..

[Flick4D]

I use the 1st grip you described for almost all of my flick drives, and I have the same callous on my pointer finger. It still gets irritated when I play 3 days in a row, but not nearly as bad as it used to. I have mixed in quite a bit of backhand this year, and that has helped a lot, both with callouses and shoulder soreness. I'd recommend that. Also, cleaning up your form, and throwing less stable discs sidearm, will help a ton. I used to crank the flick anny for most of my drives. Now, I throw less stable forces, destroyers, ce firebird f's, and flat bosses. Only use the really overstable discs when you need to turn right hard, or fight a headwind.

[Jazziator]

Yea funny you mention backhands the past week or so I have been sharpening that game a lot ive seen an immense amount of improvement of what i used to throw( thats not saying much) but working on it. I just need to work on snap for more d on backhand that and the the countless amount of other variables. Yea maybe im crazy or maybe it was windy but when i threw a z crush and a z force the crush seemed WAY more overstable. I read somewhere on the forums that if im throwing fh overstable plastic 300 to 350 then i dont have enough snap for it yet?? Im not sure how to obtain more. I usually do a standstill drive, I stick my right foot out in front of me then i turn my body and step into the drive with my left foot to try and get more hip snap. Im not sure how anyone throws forehand 450 to 500 is it just a massive anhyzer?? Geoff bennet on his discraft profile says he uses the pulse for drives anywhere from 450 to 610 ft thats so far... if anyone on these forums can drive a forehand 450-500 they should make a video so i can study the form...

sorry to stray off topic..

[Flick4D]

I've never thrown Crushes, but, like any mold, each disc can vary in stability, based on how domey it is, the plastic type, and the weight. Flat to moderate domed forces aren't really overstable at all, especially at high speeds, while domey Forces are suuuper overstable.

I will flick moderate domed Forces flat on holes 300-420ish, because I know the disc very well, and it is super predictable for me, wind or no wind. If 300-350 is your current range, I wouldn't recommend a Force as your main driver. You aren't getting the speed or rpm's up enough to utilize that disc. Any number of slower discs will likely get you more predictability (and less skip) in that range. Probably Orc's, Crushes, Z Flashes, Firebird FL's, Surges, etc..

For a standstill drive, your distance range sounds very good. You will also be more accurate, and consistent with less runup. To throw further than 350', you will likely need to introduce more runup. A couple steps should suffice to generate a lot more power from the legs/hips/torso and then finish with shoulder/forearm/wrist.

450-500+ foot forehands are world class, that's for sure. I'm 6'1'', 200lbs, come from a racquetball background, and perform precise resistance training and flexibility exercises weekly to maintain/improve the muscle power and range of motion to throw sidearms that far. When I was new to disc golf 3 years ago, I would throw the huge anhyzer line you described, with a Z Flick. It was just brute power, very ugly I'm sure, and definitely painful to throw more than a few times per round. I would not even play on back to back days because my shoulder would be that sore the next day. My max D with that style was 480' on flat ground. The height used had to have been 30' +, and the angle used was so severe that a lot of my shots would turn into sky rollers. My elbow was very far away from my body, and my shoulder was generating most of the power (both can be dangerous, and not worthwhile).

This year, I cleaned my form up quite a bit, and I throw most of my sidearms flat. My shoulder doesn't get nearly as sore, and I can play back to back days. For golf lines 450'+, and even in distance competitions, I throw very low to moderately high (10'-20') line drives most of the time. If it is a tunnel shot, or I don't want any turn left, I will throw a moderate domed ESP Force, or a similarly shaped 1st run champ. boss. that is newish. If I can afford, or want some turn left, for a huge "S" shot, a 169ish star boss, or more beat 1st run champ. boss will do that for me. If I want a very long (450+) right to left the whole way, I will throw my flat or moderate domed worn in 1st run and/or star destroyers, flat and or worn esp forces, or if there is a headwind, the 1st run champion boss with a little bit of anny.

For pure distance, in competitions, I will sometimes throw anny with overstable discs, and they usually go 450ish on flat ground. The shots that actually went the furthest (495'-516') surprised me. They went right to left the entire time, and never came back to the right at the end. For me, the perfect discs for that max D were 171-172g esp forces or star destroyers that were flat to very slight dome.

I tried the Pulse once, didn't like it much, and definitely wouldn't recommend it for reaching new levels of sidearm distance.
Maybe Discraft has sold a few more of them with Geoff B.'s quote, though. I believe the official sidearm distance record is still Scott Stokely's 518.3' ?? I wouldn't be surprised if a handful of people have unofficially thrown further on flat ground (Geoff included), but 610' on flat ground hasn't happened. Maybe the equivalent of a 95+ mph sidearm pitch, at the right height could go that far...maybe. I am actually trying to figure out how to get that last 24' or so to break the record, if it still stands as the record. Maybe a hyzer flip will do it (something I've yet to try), with a flippy destroyer/force/wraith/something else?

At the Vibram Open at Maple Hill this year, I was probably the only one throwing sidearms in the distance comp. and threw 514' with a 175 1st run champ. boss, and 516' with a 172g esp force (12th best maybe?, top 10 made finals I think). I don't think Geoff B. even threw, because the top guys throwing backhand are in a different league, and were certain to take the cash. The tee is elevated maybe 20'-25', but I threw all line drive annys that didn't really take advantage of it. The reason I say this is because I threw 495' (laser fancy gadget measured) a few weeks earlier on flat ground. I thought the 2 good throws I had were easily the longest I had ever thrown, and expected them to be 550'-600' because of the elevated tee, but was surprised that they were barely further than the flat ground throws I had in the 495' range a few weeks earlier.

It's not a great time of year in New England (snow on the ground, freezing temps) to try these throws now, but Tim Red Beard might take some video of my sidearm throws this weekend, if we have time for a fun distance competition. My style is very compact, and much different from Geoff B. and Ville's styles. Geoff B. uses a huge range of motion, starts with the disc vertical, reaching way back and following through a ton. Ville Piippo looks to have great range of motion in his shoulder, but doesn't use a lot of lower body at all in the videos I have seen. I use a lot of lower body, core, and forearm but don't follow through very much (this will hopefully change and increase my power and decrease stress on the body).

The Mark Ellis Discraft video on youtube shows some great form (especially Mark's), that could help you in the meantime.

Oh, wait, the moral of the story is: develop those callouses if you want to sidearm 450'+...and go to the buy/sell/trade section and check out my discs

[JR]

Check out Avery Jenkins FH (BH and 360 as well) slow mo from two angles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHSZyYAVPbs

[Jazziator]

Thanks for the tips Ive defenitly looked at both of those forms Marks is defenitly my favorite, but Avery's is very original... Ive tried marks form so many times I end up doing the same backswing BIG scoop and I end up on my with all my weight on my left foot and very strait shot. I normally throw with a very strait shot no wobble at all.. I used to do a big run up accelerating through the run up 5 steps left, right, left, right x, left weight transfer, Scoop, snap follow through, sometimes i would exaggerate it and finish with the full circle spin *looks good* . but still no serious distance. Z flash is defenitly my favorite disc but i just picked it up 2 weeks ago still working with it. I have to release it with a little hyzer angle for it to straighten out very good glide, it flies far for me. And its BY FAR my best very consistent anhyzer disc. If you made a video i am sure a lot of forehanders on these forums would appreciate it very much.

There was one time i threw an esp surge soo straight with such good glide I know I hit 400, but it was a one time thing and i dont know what i did, because i usually turn those surges over cause of too much OAT, It was defenitly a run though.

Thanks for your help Ill be hoping for the video.

[Flick4D]

Yeah, a buddy of mine that throws forehand with a good amount less power, throws ESP Surges 350'+ without much effort. When you snap them just right, or hit the right anny angle and height, they will probably go as far as any disc for you. It'd be good to work on your form with them as well, as it sounds like you turn them over with too much OAT, but they will fly 400'ish if you throw it cleanly. Learning a hyzer flip, and throwing straight shots with the z flash is great, too. I used to sidearm those a lot when I started, and the beefy, overstable ones would definitely hide OAT, while the flippier ones would turn into rollers. If you can throw clean right to left annys with it, that's a very useful shot on the course, especially if the hole is out of your current backhand range or comfort zone.

[beatz]

Like flick said build up the callus dont chew on it or anything leave the puppy alone.

My forehand is much like mark ellis's, big swoop generating my power (i consider it more like a sidearm baseball pitch cause i have a baseball background) with all my power then going into my hips and exploding out. Resulting in a big followthrough and pivoting on my left foot.

I have seen flick throw and he has some serious power behind it. Granted he doesnt tell you he is built like a brick shithouse.

I personally dont use the grip you guys mention but i do you use it for 300 feet and in anything longer then 300 i will use a flick power grip. I used to use a 1st run boss untill it became too flippy not i have been using xcals. and average 350-375 maybe more if i get a tail wind or really try to nut one out there. But here in maine i dont really need a huge 400 foot shot. Not to mention i would much rather throw backhand.

[nohr]

Like flick said build up the callus dont chew on it or anything leave the puppy alone.

Over the past year and a half. I have built up a callus on my middle finger from backhands. It will often hurt after a round from the disc ripping off that point. It really gets irritated if I throw a bunch of mids.

So this leads me to my question. Is a callus better than tape?

I have been thinking about taping up a finger or two and seeing if I can still throw the same.

[Mark Ellis]

Like flick said build up the callus dont chew on it or anything leave the puppy alone.

Over the past year and a half. I have built up a callus on my middle finger from backhands. It will often hurt after a round from the disc ripping off that point. It really gets irritated if I throw a bunch of mids.

So this leads me to my question. Is a callus better than tape?

I have been thinking about taping up a finger or two and seeing if I can still throw the same.

The problem with calluses is that with enough playing the callus will grow and grow until eventually it tears off leaving a bloody gash. Then it stings like crazy, especially in bitter cold, as it slowly heals then starts the same cycle again until a several months later it happens again. I spoke to Dr. Rick Voakes who taught me how to fix it. You prevent the callus from forming by taping the spot. Something called paper tape works best and can be found in any drug store. I like the product by 3M best.

There are many other tapes out there but they require a break in period. So after you put it on you need to throw with it for a while until it is comfortable and not slippery. Paper tape is good to go.

You can sand down a callus but eventually it dries out, cracks, and tears off, leaving....a bloody gash. Which, of course, is exactly at the spot you grip a disc so it stings like crazy.

The shape of the disc you throw may influence how fast a callus grows. Jazziator, who started this thread, talked about throwing Predators forehand. The rim of the Pred beats my hand up which is why I don't throw it (high dome added to a sharp rim). If I had to throw a Pred I might need a glove made out of metal.

[nohr]

Played 2 rounds with paper tape yesterday. Stuff works out pretty good. Thanks for the information Mark.

[FierceTable]

It wasn't until recently I experienced the callus you've described from throwing forehand so I can't speak about long term treatment, but the Johnson and Johnson waterproof tape (less than $3) is wonderful for preventing further wear and tear on that area of skin. The generic stuff put out by CVS to be the same product is absolute trash for this purpose as it's not as flexible, as sticky, or as textured as the original. While wearing the tape I don't notice problems with putting or forehand throws, but I do seem to lose a little bit of grip strength in fuller power backhands.

[StumperTX]

I use this grip and haven't had problems with calluses:


not sure if it'll cost you distance though

[Flick4D]

I tried that grip a few times, and it definitely doesn't cost distance; the disc came out like a rocket, usually the discs hyzered a bit more, perhaps due to a cleaner release, or slightly more hyzer angle of release. It was less accurate, but maybe just because of my unfamiliarity with it. Can't speak to it avoiding calluses.