More sidearm instruction

[Toney]

I've been reading the sidearm article, and my sidearm game has been improving. but sometimes the disc still flips over terribly, and I'm sure I'm doing everything right--arm close, palm up, lots of snap. But obviously I'm doing something wrong.

I've heard some words in other parts of the side about off axis torque, or something like that, which leads me to wonder more about how parallel the disc should be to the forearm--if indeed this leads to off-axis torque.

Anyway, could I get more words on the position of the disc relative to the forearm--like the equivalent information on the backhand throw? And also how this leads to problems in off-axis torque?

Thanks,
Toney

[presidio hills]

from my experience it sounds like you may be swinging your arm too much. my theory with sidearm is you don't need to pull your upper arm back... you need to keep your elbow as far back as your waist, reach back with only your forearm, and throw using your hip rotation and a flick of the wrist. let the hip rotation lead the extention of your forearm and find the point at which you need to flick it.

when the upper arm reaches back it's more of a throwing a ball type motion and it's easy to get too much speed and not enough spin on the disc... causing it to flop and turn over. i've seen people throw beautiful sidearms like this, anyways, but i think it's a lot harder...

[Toney]

Thanks, sounds reasonable. Elbow in does seem to work better. I think this helps get the feeling of the elbow leading the effort, in sync with the hip rotation.

What I also have been doing is thinking more about how the wrists turn. If I do a lot of pronation with the wrists/forearm (if that's the right word) prior to snapping with a palm up orientation, things seem to go wrong. But if I keep my palm moving along the same plane relative to the forearm (with less forearm rotations), the movements are simlified, and the disc goes better.

And if I keep my head down and lean over the line of the throw, almost as if I'm bending over the disc, I seem to aim better, sort of like a good forward extension with a backhand throw.

Does this make sense?

Toney

[Blake_T]

you want the wrist movement to stay parallel to the disc plane and the forearm movement.

what you are describing with your head/upper body is correct sidearm form.

[presidio hills]

what you are describing with your head/upper body is correct sidearm form.

yeah, yeah. i've been concentrating on this more... for the sake of accuracy, initially, but it's smoothed my form out. feels like the sidearm version of the "fold over"

[Toney]

Blake, does this also mean I should keep plane of disc parallel with top of forearm, and not just the movement of forearm (or is the same thing?). In other words, sometimes I feel I get a better shot if plane of disc is bent quite a bit down from forearm plane, to get the hyzer right. If I kept disc parallel to forearm. I would have to lower my hand considerably to get the same stronger hyzer I need in the sdiearm.