Illegal discs and Illegal things

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Illegal discs and Illegal things

Postby sweeper » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:27 pm

I know that you are not allowed to alter discs. What I want to know is how bad is it to cheat with the discs you use in a tourney? How will anybody find out?

Let me give an example. I have a 188 Z comet that I was labeled as a 180. If I didn't get a scale to weigh it, I would never know. I could have been throwing an illegal disc in tourneys and never had a clue.

I also have a disc that I don't use that weighed in at 2 grams over its max legal weight. I was thinking about scuffing it up with sandpaper to "help" it break down during normal use to a legal weight. I also know that this is illegal, but if the disc is a legal weight, and my disc shows no signs of "tampering" I would think I (anybody) would get away with it.

Is one violation worse than the other? Am I just out my $12 because I believed (insert disc company here) could weigh their discs?
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Re: Illegal discs and Illegal things

Postby Dig It » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:41 pm

At my first tourny I asked the TD if he had the pdga sheet showing weights because I had a 184 Element in my bag and I didn't know if it was legal. He said, "Is it 200g? Then it's okay." I took it out because I didn't know what the cut off weight was and he didn't even know there was such a thing. I seriously doubt you'd ever get busted for it but I couldn't in good conscious tell you to go for it.
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Re: Illegal discs and Illegal things

Postby sweeper » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:51 pm

I will not and could not use any illegal discs in a tourney because it would bother me. I was just curious as to people's thoughts. Luckily, I don't really like any of the overweight discs I own.
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Re: Illegal discs and Illegal things

Postby Elevated Plastic » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:33 pm

99% of the time I weigh my discs they are 1-2g off, and most of the time it's more not less. I had a mid that said 178 and weighed 186. Anyways as long as it's less than 200g it's fine. As far as the sandpaper I do it all the time and know of plenty of peeps who do it too. Don't really think it's an issue IMO.
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Re: Illegal discs and Illegal things

Postby Yehosha » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:41 pm

B. The guidelines for golf discs are set forth in the PDGA Technical Standards Document. To be legal in PDGA competition, a disc must:

(1) have a saucer-like configuration with a flight plate unbroken by perforations and an inner rim depth which exceeds five percent of the outside disc diameter. The flight plate is defined as the upper (or dorsal) section of the disc;
(2) be made of solid, non-magnetic plastic material, without any inflatable components;
(3) not be less than 21 cm in outside disc diameter, nor exceed 40 cm in outside disc diameter;
(4) not exceed 8.3 g per cm in outside disc diameter;
(5) not exceed a maximum weight of 200 g;
(6) be essentially as produced, without any post-production modifications which affect the weight or flight characteristics;

(7) be of a production-type disc available commercially to the public in numbers of at least 1500 in the case of a new mold or 500 in the case of a renamed disc out of a previously approved mold;
(8) present no unreasonable and no unusual danger to players or spectators;
(9) have a rim configuration rating of 26.0 or greater;
(10) pass the leading edge radius test with a 1/16" (1.6 mm) radius gauge;
(11) have a flexibility rating no greater than 27 lb. (12.25 kg); and
(12) have been certified for competition by the PDGA Technical Standards Committee.



The Element is 22cm, so 22 x 8.3 = 182.6, so yeah it'd be illegal. While it's not your fault, if someone questioned a disc you used in tournament play, and a TD weighed it, you could be disqualified if the TD chose. The chance of that happening though is pretty slim.

I'm curious what a manufacturer would say if you wrote them, informed them that your disc was illegal, and asked for a refund?
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Re: Illegal discs and Illegal things

Postby tito » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:09 pm

I have been wondering the same thing.
also, my favorite putter got a thorn stuck through it one day. So, knowing that discs with holes in them are illegal, I immediately retired it to putting practice only. When I went to my first tournament I kinda expected the TD to inspect discs but they didn't (that would take a lot of time). I couldn't help but wonder how many people get a tiny hole in their go-to disc like I did (or sometimes they have a tiny hole in the center from the factory) and still get away with using it in a tourney.
The weird thing is, I don't think a holey or overweight disc would necessarily give most players much of an edge. Having an auto-body background, I can't help but repair the deep gouges in my baseline discs with clippers and sandpaper, and sometimes I sand the flashing off new ones if they feel weird.
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Re: Illegal discs and Illegal things

Postby Solty » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:33 pm

i actually just bought a digi scale to weight discs up to the .1 of gram...

i'm running an a/b tier this summer...and i could see random pull for weight checks...but to check everyones discs....it would take 1/2 a day!
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Re: Illegal discs and Illegal things

Postby tigel » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:12 pm

I use a food scale (diabetes) on all my discs. Anything "max weight" at 180 I check. Mostly because those discs, from my experience, have been only midranges. If I see a 176-180g champion plastic driver, I know after I throw it for a long time it WILL drop in weight 1-5g. 5 is pushing it, but 1-3 is a given. My 5 month old champion 175 wraith is now 169.

I make sure my midranges are 180 (or 182 depending on diameter) because my midranges don't hit trees going a trillion miles an hour (yes I throw that fast). I know in the same time my drivers are getting beat the shit, my midranges aren't even getting a tenth of that.


Ultimately I don't think it matters. A TD isn't going to check every disc. It's too big of a job. Even if they did, it wouldn't be worth the time/effort since I really don't think an overweight disc is THAT big of an advantage. (please prove me wrong, I don't really know what the possibilities are when it comes to that...)
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Re: Illegal discs and Illegal things

Postby SkaBob » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:03 am

I haven't even heard of bag/disc inspection at Worlds...
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Re: Illegal discs and Illegal things

Postby Yehosha » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:09 pm

SkaBob wrote:I haven't even heard of bag/disc inspection at Worlds...

And it should stay that way. It's a manufacturing problem, not a player problem. How would someone even know they were throwing an illegal disk. I'd guess 99.9% of all disc golfers have never weighed their discs. How is it their fault that they DG manufacturers are sloppywith their quality control?
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Re: Illegal discs and Illegal things

Postby cjskier » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:25 pm

Yehosha wrote:
SkaBob wrote:I haven't even heard of bag/disc inspection at Worlds...

And it should stay that way. It's a manufacturing problem, not a player problem. How would someone even know they were throwing an illegal disk. I'd guess 99.9% of all disc golfers have never weighed their discs. How is it their fault that they DG manufacturers are sloppywith their quality control?


Really? 99%?

I'm think more like half of us actually weigh our discs in actuality.
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Re: Illegal discs and Illegal things

Postby Yehosha » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:33 pm

cjskier wrote:
Yehosha wrote:
SkaBob wrote:I haven't even heard of bag/disc inspection at Worlds...

And it should stay that way. It's a manufacturing problem, not a player problem. How would someone even know they were throwing an illegal disk. I'd guess 99.9% of all disc golfers have never weighed their discs. How is it their fault that they DG manufacturers are sloppywith their quality control?


Really? 99%?

I'm think more like half of us actually weigh our discs in actuality.

Considering I've never met one person that does, I highly doubt it's half. I know it's not 99% either, but the % I'm sure is very high.
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Re: Illegal discs and Illegal things

Postby cjskier » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:35 pm

well, me and EVERYONE I play with does, so...



Clearly you cant trust what the discs say on them, especially Discraft's. Why would you not want to know that it REALLY weighs?
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Re: Illegal discs and Illegal things

Postby juju » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:42 pm

cjskier wrote:Why would you not want to know that it REALLY weighs?


Because then I couldn't throw it if I knew it was illegal. Ignorance is bliss...
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Re: Illegal discs and Illegal things

Postby ferretdance03 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:59 pm

cjskier wrote:Why would you not want to know that it REALLY weighs?

Because the average golfer (NOT average dgr'er) doesn't care. I bet the majority of your casual players, which make up the largest portion of golfers, don't know that disc weight is even an issue.

Remember, we are the minority.
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