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Re: The Ion is released!

Postby dgdave » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:36 pm

It flies like a Summit with extra HSS and a bit less LSS but will still fight back a little at the end with height. Handles a wind better than a Summit. This was with and into 15 MPH wind and shots from 100-250.

The glide was ok. The flightplate was sunkin in when I got it, so I'm going to try and flatten it up a bit to add some glide.

My only complaint so far is the lettering in the bottom. Its to pronounced and right where I wanna lay my fingers.
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Re: The Ion is released!

Postby tigel » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:37 pm

Frank Delicious wrote: I weighed it when I got it because it feels pretty heavy in my hand but the scale says 166. Does anyone else have that same feel when they hold it or am I just insane?


I was wondering too. I think it has something to do with a lot of the weight seems to be on the rim (the red). So it might make it feel like it weighs more than it really does in that respect? Having a heavier rim also makes me want to say the ion is flimsy too, but it's not. It's quite durable.
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Re: The Ion is released!

Postby Frank Delicious » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:31 am

threw this a lot at the local pitch and putt and really liked it. I can throw it about 250 without having to put too much on it. It actually flew pretty stable and after some throws, it reminds me a lot of a DX XD except it doesn't beat in to super flippy in one round. I really like it and would like to see them run a bit heavier to see if any of the characteristics change.
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Re: The Ion is released!

Postby Frank Delicious » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:07 pm

My ion flies so slow and glidy I threw it on a 250' hole at four o' clock today and I'm still waiting for it to get there.
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Re: The Ion is released!

Postby tigel » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:17 pm

Frank Delicious wrote:My ion flies so slow and glidy I threw it on a 250' hole at four o' clock today and I'm still waiting for it to get there.


lol
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Re: The Ion is released!

Postby Timko » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:52 pm

I threw one in Disc Golf World's back room today. This thing flies STRAIGHT for putting. The plastic is also top notch.
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Re: The Ion is released!

Postby cmrichar » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:38 am

Hello all!

It has been quite some time since I have last posted on the boards. I would like to say hi to all the familiar and not so familiar faces here. Feels good to be back :)

I have been very busy with school and such. Now that I am back and up to speed on everything etc, I will now be able to fill everyone in by answering questions, talk about new progress that is being made, what our plans are for future runs, etc.

I first want to start off by saying thanks to everyone thus far for all of the great comments, reviews, ideas, questions, and everything! All of this is very supporting and vital to us, which helps us tremendously. Please keep them coming!

I would like to talk a little bit more about the Ion.

There were a handful of key concepts that I wanted to implement into designing this disc.

Primarily, creating a putter that would have a strip of plastic made of different material, around the outermost diameter of the disc.

The route we have chosen to execute this was to use a two stage injection molding process. We have our mold and two sets of inserts that fit the mold. The first set of inserts produces what we call the 'core' part of the disc. The core from our first run, which we are currently selling, is the blue portion of the disc. Then, we interchange the first set of inserts with the second set. This second set of inserts encases the blue 'core'. With the core inside these inserts, we inject what we call the 'overmold' portion of the disc around the circumference. The 'overmold' is the soft and grippy red plastic on the outside of the disc.
Mad Scientist wrote:I was just wondering if the edge of the core was smooth, or if there was some sort of channel for the rim plastic to form around.

I am not totally sure which edge you are referring to, but with our process, there are no channels/holes/etc that you have to worry about getting in the way of your fingers or anything. This is contrary to the stepped-up edge under the Quest Odyssey line of discs. We did not want any feature of the disc to have any inhabitance on comfort, allowing for a smooth accurate throw.

Why a different plastic along the circumference of the disc?

The number one reason for this, is that it would enable us to mold a VERY soft and grippy plastic along the leading edge of the disc to grab the chains. With the core in the middle of the disc, we can have any flexibility we choose without sacrificing the ability to grip the chains. This allows us to have a firm feeling putter, but will still have a tacky outer diameter to stop the disc on the chains. With two plastics being used, there are many creative combinations we are brewing up that may be seen in the future. There are a few other ideas that we have come up with that utilize this concept of an overmolded leading edge...but those are going to be a secret for now, until we make further progress on them ;) :D And of course, cool color combinations can and will be implemented!

Comfort. We wanted this disc to feel pristine in your hands. A putter needs to feel perfect in order to have a clean release, allowing for an accurate shot. The major factor that went into the design was the rounded edge on the inside of the rim meeting the flight plate. This can be seen from the cross section picture. Your fingers literally conform to the inside of the disc. You have to hold one to really understand how nice these feel. With the smooth rounded edge, you will have much cleaner releases from putting, approach shots, and even driving! We did not want to have any sharp corners or pressure points on this disc, just a putter that feels 'perfect'.

With our designed profile of the disc, we were shooting for a neutral or slightly under stable putter. I have only had the chance to throw a handful of drives, upshots, and putts with the disc. but I feel that the disc is a straight and neutral flyer. The rounded edge on the inside of the rim has made the disc very gyroscopic. Since there is more added weight along the outside of the disc, it keeps the disc spinning longer, making for a straighter flight. This is even true into a wind, with the gyroscopic forces, wind has less affect on changing the flight pattern.

Please keep your flight reviews coming! If you do not have an Ion to throw yet, please PM BCR-9er to buy our available first runs.

Currently, we are only using one type of plastic for the Ion. The plastic we are using is Polyurethane, which is widely known as an extremely durable plastic used for golf discs. This is comparable/same to Innova Champion, Discraft Z, etc. But, we have available to us, a vast variety of flexibilities of polyurethane. We have prototyped some cores that are very stiff, and some even flexible enough to literally roll up like a pancake. These were just a tiny batch of prototypes, but we plan to run a variety of these to suit all needs of different firmnesses. The one beautiful thing about the polyurethane we have available to us, is that it comes as straight polyurethane to our factory. All we have to do is just order what flexibility polyurethane and presto, we have our exact flexibility we want. There is no blending, no mixing, no guesswork, there is no variances between runs. CONSISTENT. We have yet to come up with a name for this plastic at this time. We will also create a flexibility scale that matches our exact orders of polyurethane so you will get your EXACT preferred flexibility to your likings EVERY time.

As for a baseline plastic. We have been very swamped rushing to finish the mold, prototyping different plastics, setting up sales, and getting everything tweaked perfectly, that we do not have time to test out a baseline plastic at this time. Could we work on a baseline plastic at a future time? Most definitely, but when is not something I can answer just yet.

So, as we stand right now. We have ran one large batch of these semi flexible light blue core with a red, grippy, overmold. All of which weigh approx 166 grams.

Future progress. Our next step and priority is running some max weight and close to max weight Ions. In addition to weight, we will be running a variety of flexibilities. We are working out how many different flexibilities we want to market, we just know that we can have them from super stiff to super floppy, and anywhere in between. But in the meantime, we need to sell some of our first runs before we can do a whole lot of progress at this time.

Please, if you have any questions, comments, reviews, thoughts, anything, feel free to post here and I will do my best, along with BCR-9er and PRES 10, to help out in any way we can.

Thank you very much,

Chad

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Last edited by cmrichar on Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Ion is released!

Postby BCR-9er » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:30 pm

Thank you Worm 28 for the thorough information. I have put it in the original post.
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Re: The Ion is released!

Postby Flipflat » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:10 pm

Anyone accidently crank one of these into a tree yet? How's the durability?

Also, I think it's interesting that only one kind of plastic will be offered, but with three+ flexibilities, instead of three types of plastic with their own feel.
I would like your X-Wasps, please.
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Re: The Ion is released!

Postby Frank Delicious » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:14 pm

Flipflat wrote:Anyone accidently crank one of these into a tree yet? How's the durability?

Also, I think it's interesting that only one kind of plastic will be offered, but with three+ flexibilities, instead of three types of plastic with their own feel.



I have hit a few trees with it and it's really durable. It is definitely like they say when they compare it to champ or Z. I threw mine across the parking lot a few times trying to smooth the flashing out and it didn't even affect it.
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Re: The Ion is released!

Postby cmrichar » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:36 pm

Flipflat wrote:I think it's interesting that only one kind of plastic will be offered, but with three+ flexibilities, instead of three types of plastic with their own feel.

For right now, we are going to stick with one plastic for now. We want to perfect everything and start getting out some heavier runs, different flexibilities, more colors, etc before we start to work with a whole new plastic.

It is most definitely being looked into, just one step at a time so to speak.
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Re: The Ion is released!

Postby Flipflat » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:45 pm

Worm 28 wrote:
Flipflat wrote:I think it's interesting that only one kind of plastic will be offered, but with three+ flexibilities, instead of three types of plastic with their own feel.

For right now, we are going to stick with one plastic for now. We want to perfect everything and start getting out some heavier runs, different flexibilities, more colors, etc before we start to work with a whole new plastic.

It is most definitely being looked into, just one step at a time so to speak.


"The one beautiful thing about the polyurethane we have available to us, is that it comes as straight polyurethane to our factory. All we have to do is just order what flexibility polyurethane and presto, we have our exact flexibility we want."

I think it's cool, it sounds like you guys are really putting emphasis on disc consistancy, and that you have control of the flexbility of the plastic.
I would like your X-Wasps, please.
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Re: The Ion is released!

Postby cmrichar » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:50 pm

Flipflat wrote:
Worm 28 wrote:
Flipflat wrote:I think it's interesting that only one kind of plastic will be offered, but with three+ flexibilities, instead of three types of plastic with their own feel.

For right now, we are going to stick with one plastic for now. We want to perfect everything and start getting out some heavier runs, different flexibilities, more colors, etc before we start to work with a whole new plastic.

It is most definitely being looked into, just one step at a time so to speak.


I think it's cool, it sounds like you guys are really putting emphasis on disc consistancy, and that you have control of the flexbility of the plastic.


Mhmm most definitely. We feel that having a disc that you can buy one week and love it, that you should be able to buy more of that same disc if you need to replace it or just want to stock up for backups etc. And we will have multiple flexibilities in the future to suit all likings, from super floppy to stiff.

Thanks for your input :)
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Re: The Ion is released!

Postby rooneytunes » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:20 pm

Any new updates or opinions from those of you who already bought an ion? Is it staying in your bag? What did it replace in your bag? Is it a better straight up putter or does it drive well?
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Re: The Ion is released!

Postby Frank Delicious » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:26 pm

Mine is staying in my bag and I want some more (anyone got any to trade). I don't know if it really replaced anything in my bag but it is nice having a easy, glidy approach putter. I've been using it for all my non-hyzer upshots.
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