The All Mighty Power Grip

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The All Mighty Power Grip

Postby JacksWeather » Sun Aug 08, 2004 2:39 am

So I've been practicing a bit the past few days, and really improving a bit (I'm still quite a newb to disc golf, starting to get 300ish with little low speed fade consistently though). My hand is sore, especailly my bone of my index finger, between the first and second knuckle, the inside of the bend though not the top of the finger. This pain has raised my interest in my grip. I am doing the power grip with four fingers curled under the rim and the thumb on the top, but I've been reading a bit on the grip and noticing I can have different grips with the power grip.

Right now I'm gripping the disc so that my four fingers going around the edge of the disc are on an angle of about 40 degrees from the plane of the disc. Which means I am trying to slant my fingers as much as I can opposed to having my fingers go around the edge of the disc perpendicular to the plane of the disc. This makes it so the edge of the disc is going through where my index finger meets my palm down my palm to the center of my wrist (not actually touching my wrist). I don't know if this is the best line down my palm that the edge should be following, but it is the natural line it takes when I slant my fingers around the rim of the disc as much as possible. However I think this is a bad thing because of what it does to my grip with my thumb. An instructional article on the site said to be conscious of the part of the thumb that is gripping the disc. There are three options: the pad of the tip of the thumb, the knuckle closest to the tip of the thumb, and the base of the thumb, which for me includes a large portion of my palm. With my grip, all three parts of my thumb are gripping the disc, but its almost like the thumb doesn't even need to grip the disc because my fingertips are pressing the inside of the rim towards my palm, so the the rim is gripped by my fingertips and my palm, with the most pressure against the spot of my index finger previously mentioned, where the edge of the disc is going through the middle of the crease where the finger meets the palm, and out the outside of the finger. (this pressure is what's causing the area to be sore/bruised) So this is my most natural and comfortable grip except for the fact it has gotten sore.

Question time.
1) Is it natural for the hand to get sore in that way? I know disc ripping out can cause cuts along the finger/s but this is different I think.
2) I think it would be best if I did my best to just grip with the front pad of my thumb close to the tip, and not so much the base of my thumb. Woulld gripping with the base rob power/spin?
3) Would it be better for spin if my thumb pad were closer to the outside of the disc than the center?
4) Should I change the angle of which the disc edge goes along my palm? Should it be going across my palm from side to side more or what? (please don't say along the life line cause I don't know which line that is).

Any other advice on optimally using the power grip would be appreciate. I know its not exactly that complicated of a thing, but since its making my hand sore, I figure I may as well try to fixing up my grip so that stops and try to get some extra power while I'm at it.

Thanks,
Jack
Today seems like a good day to toss a disc or two.
The one for hyzer-flipping, turning over right on que.
I try to throw just like that, but sometimes I really suck.
Some say I need to get the axing, chalk it up to bad luck.
JacksWeather
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Postby JacksWeather » Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:24 pm

another thing...

When I get my better throws off , the disc seems to be flying pretty straight with some high speed turn and little low speed fade, but when its just flying even and straight it seems like the disc will be like bobbing up and/or down. Not changing how its flying, just changing its elevation. I was wondering if this is a bad thing, my guess is it is and if there is a known cause for it, like not having enough spin or something along those lines, thanks again...
Today seems like a good day to toss a disc or two.
The one for hyzer-flipping, turning over right on que.
I try to throw just like that, but sometimes I really suck.
Some say I need to get the axing, chalk it up to bad luck.
JacksWeather
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Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:35 am
Location: Detroit, MI

Postby Chucknplastic » Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:35 am

JacksWeather wrote:another thing...

When I get my better throws off , the disc seems to be flying pretty straight with some high speed turn and little low speed fade, but when its just flying even and straight it seems like the disc will be like bobbing up and/or down. Not changing how its flying, just changing its elevation. I was wondering if this is a bad thing, my guess is it is and if there is a known cause for it, like not having enough spin or something along those lines, thanks again...

The "bobbing" is from the wind.
Or if I'm misunderstanding you might be describing "Flutter" caused by off axis torque.
I'm not much help here though. I can't power grip for *bleep*.

Fan Grip For Teh WinaR!!!!1111
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Re: The All Mighty Power Grip

Postby Blake_T » Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:29 pm

JacksWeather wrote:Question time.
1) Is it natural for the hand to get sore in that way? I know disc ripping out can cause cuts along the finger/s but this is different I think.
2) I think it would be best if I did my best to just grip with the front pad of my thumb close to the tip, and not so much the base of my thumb. Woulld gripping with the base rob power/spin?
3) Would it be better for spin if my thumb pad were closer to the outside of the disc than the center?
4) Should I change the angle of which the disc edge goes along my palm? Should it be going across my palm from side to side more or what? (please don't say along the life line cause I don't know which line that is).

Any other advice on optimally using the power grip would be appreciate. I know its not exactly that complicated of a thing, but since its making my hand sore, I figure I may as well try to fixing up my grip so that stops and try to get some extra power while I'm at it.


1. i'm not sure if you are referring to the knuckle closest to the palm or closest to the tip, so i will write a bit on both of them. as for soreness at the base of the index finger, this is normal if you have a firm grip. the edge of the dsc will rub quite a bit and give a big callous or blister. this portion often gets tender for me and i tape it regularly before i play (tape after it starts hurting does nothing to ease the pain). if you are referring to the knuckle near the tip, then this is probably due to too much slide, not enough rip. basically, you should not get pain in the tip of the finger (unless it's arthritic) due to disc rip. the rip actually occurs because the disc overpowers the joint and forces the finger to bend open. if the disc slides off of the end of the finger causing a lot of friction and drag, then there is not enough rip force.

2. the pressure into the base of the thumb really dictates how much spin you can get as the disc leaves your lock fingers (with the power grip these are the middle, ring, and pinkey) before it rips off of your index finger. the tip or pad of the thumb gives some control and is responsible for some of the rip force. basically, the pad of the thumb can determine some of the nose angle as well as how much pressure you can apply with your index finger while the actual pressure of the fingers should press the disc into the seam of the hand/base of the thumb.

3. the placement of the thumb pad in terms of how close to the rim is actually less important than people think, although the closer to the rim, the easier it is to get the nose down (however, the "wrist down" position is probably more important for grips that have the index finger under the rim). if you look at a few players, such as steve brinster, dean tannock, etc. they have their thumbs nearly pointed towards the center of the rim. what i can say is, that a thumb placement closer to the center is less likely to off-axis torque, but is also more difficult to get the nose down unless your forearm/wrist mechanics are solid.

4. the disc should lie in the seam of the hand or "above" it. check out the area 46 disc site i have linked to for some pictures. since you said not to reference the lifeline, touch your thumb and pinkey pads together (while your other fingers are left straight), you should see a crease in the base of the palm next to the wrist. this is the start of the "seam." rest the disc starting there and have it extend towards the fingers and have it intersect the space between the index and middle fingers. this is the correct orientation. if you get "below" that orientation it can cause a tendency to air bounce.

as for grip pain, if it is a joint/muscle issue, stop :)
if it's just callous/blistering, then i suggest tape.

i'm at the worlds right now on a public terminal, will try to write back more when i return home.
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Postby Jobuu » Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:32 pm

the bobbing is probably due to hot and cold pockets of air - much like an airplane when you have turbulance

if the disc is wobbling left and right, it's due to a bad release

i use the powergrip after i noticed that it would make my grip move about a half inch closer to a level throw - i had problems last year with a fan grip and threw nothing but big hyzers (RHBH)

my friend has the sore finger with the fan grip and i dont with the power grip - so it must be the release - it's hard to say without seeing it but i try to let all fingers go almost as if im going from a fist to shaking someone's hand

try throwing against your couch pillows nice and easy and see how you're releasing
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Postby Blake_T » Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:09 pm

with the fan grip, it can change the rip point.

many fan grip throwers use the middle knuckle on the middle finger as the rip point and that's where they apply a lot of pressure on the rim into the hand.

for a player to preserve the rip point on the index finger with a fan grip, then the pressure focus must still be with the index finger pad pressing into the seam of the hand.

chances are your friend with the fan grip is not focusing the pressure with the middle finger and not getting strong pressure with the index finger. the result of this will be a slip/slide of the disc off the index finger (vs. the rip) and pain in the tip of the finger due to friction/callous/bruising.
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Postby JacksWeather » Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:30 pm

Funny thing happened today. I probably know what I did wrong though. I was throwing the disc and getting more rip than I ever have before. I think there was snap, but I wasn't really listening for a pop, concentrating on the throw more, but I am finally really getting the disc to rip out of my hand opposed to...not having it rip out (more of consciously throwing it). So anywho, I was getting lots of rip but my throws were hurting the very tip of my middle finger now. I took a second to think about how I was gripping the disc and I was trying to make it so I only gripped it with the tip/pad of my thumb and my fingers were not fully wrapped around the rim (which I'm thinking is the problem). The tips of the fingers were more on the bottom edge of the rim, still curling around some, but none of the finger tips were touching much of the inside of the rim and none of the underside of the disc. It seemed like I was getting pretty good spin though. I stopped throwing when I got a blister/under the skin cut thing on my middle finger. Think I just need to wrap my fingers around the rim more?

Blake, So are you saying its ok/good to be gripping the disc with the the base of the thumb?

If I see the disc has alot of high speed turn, what does that indicate? cause I'm pretty sure before my throws had no high speed turn whatsoever, but I feel like I get some improvement in my throw and I'll notice more high speed turn than before. Does it mean I'm getting more spin on the disc or throwing the disc at a higher velocity?

If my endless questions get annoying tell me. : )
Today seems like a good day to toss a disc or two.
The one for hyzer-flipping, turning over right on que.
I try to throw just like that, but sometimes I really suck.
Some say I need to get the axing, chalk it up to bad luck.
JacksWeather
Noob
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:35 am
Location: Detroit, MI

Postby Blake_T » Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:44 pm

JacksWeather wrote:Think I just need to wrap my fingers around the rim more?


yes. most grips have a separate rip and lock points. with a power grip or similar mod, the index finger has the rip and the other 3 fingers are the lock. basically, you want as much force as possible of the index finger into the seam of the hand or base of the thumb, depending upon your index finger's orientation. the lock point(s) should drive pressure into the base of the thumb. it is the release of the lock that gives some of the spin, and the rip off the index finger that results in most of the force and some spin.

JacksWeather wrote:Blake, So are you saying its ok/good to be gripping the disc with the the base of the thumb?


this is fine/good. the pad of the thumb is usually only used for control, especially during the rip. i have a friend who can throw 340' and he throws without the pad of the thumb touching the disc... with just pressure into the base.

JacksWeather wrote:If I see the disc has alot of high speed turn, what does that indicate? cause I'm pretty sure before my throws had no high speed turn whatsoever, but I feel like I get some improvement in my throw and I'll notice more high speed turn than before. Does it mean I'm getting more spin on the disc or throwing the disc at a higher velocity?


it sounds like you are getting more nose down and possibly more snap or velocity. factors that will make a disc turn:
1) more nose down
2) more velocity
3) a LOT of snap
4) a LOT of spin (in the case of over-rotation, most people are unable to generate enough to use this method to turn drivers)

JacksWeather wrote:If my endless questions get annoying tell me. : )


i'm happy to answer any questions as long as people keep asking them :)
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Postby Jobuu » Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:16 am

wont more velocity make the disc turn over to the right (RHBH) anhyzer?

i was under the impression he meant the disc was turning left in a high speed turn which would mean the extra "umph" he was putting on the disc compromised his technique and possibly now releasing the disc on the hyzer side making it turn left

i use this type of throw on the course i play at due to a swamp i have to avoid on the right. hyzer it over the swamp for a nice left arc right on the fairway.
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Postby Chucknplastic » Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:42 am

Blake_T wrote:i'm happy to answer any questions as long as people keep asking them :)


Blake,
Are you at World's yet? If so try to check out the Discwing QK.

sneak off with it and write a review.
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Postby Blake_T » Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:54 am

Jobuu wrote:wont more velocity make the disc turn over to the right (RHBH) anhyzer?

i was under the impression he meant the disc was turning left in a high speed turn which would mean the extra "umph" he was putting on the disc compromised his technique and possibly now releasing the disc on the hyzer side making it turn left


velocity will make the disc turn right. not sure as for the other part, but i was assuming turn to the right.

as for the quarter K, i held it, i like the feel of it. i'm on the mailing list to grab a couple as soon as they are ready to ship. downside is, the underside has grip rings... and they are gonna tool them off :(
it feels very good in the hand for me, cept a lot of people complain about it. retail on this disc is gonna be in the $18-20 range.
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