Pro Waith and Orcs

Golf Discs, Bags, Baskets, Videos, and other Disc Golf Related Equipment

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

Pro Waith and Orcs

Postby Bradley Walker » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:49 pm

I started playing disc golf in the late 1970's (when the discs still had numbers on them). I played pretty seriously in the 1980's and won a few amatuer tournaments. I stopped playing for more than a decade and returned 4 years ago, only to seperate my right biceps tendon 100% throwing backhand in a casual round. At the time I was still throwing relatively "old technology" discs.

My throwing style was built around a hyser release, as ALL DISCS at one time turned over. Not like today at all. Anyway... after surgery, years of rehab, including martial arts training, I started playing again. These new discs were simply eating my lunch in the beginning, as I had no clue how the throw "flat" or (really) hard anhyser in the modern style, so I hated all of the fast discs at first. I spent several weeks in the field next to my house testing discs, throwing every day and making trips to buy more. I went through a progreession of going to faster and faster discs. I started with the Cylcone, then the XL, TeeBird, Orc and finally to the Wraith Pro.

I now throw the Orc and Wraith very well. My favorite Orc is a 162 Champion and I also like the heavier DX Orcs, for long anhyser, nose down, long flights with a fall at the end to the left. In calm conditions I have thrown my Orcs 140 paces. The Wraith is everything the Orc is but goes about 10 paces further, and it appears to be much more accurate (after tweaking the rim a tick). It seems to go "right where you point it" and mantain the angle imposed on it from the beginning of the throw to the end. Throwing 400+ is pretty easy, I am thinking 500 ft. now. I nearly threw it in my bag from 400+ feet TWICE IN ROW. Nuff said...

I do not care if it will fly into the wind. I have Champion Tee Birds for that...
Bradley Walker
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3702
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:46 pm
Favorite Disc: Roc

Postby TexasOutlaw » Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:25 am

The pro wraith is a very good disc. During the orc days (when everyone was throwing orcs), I didn't like them. I just couldn't get the accuracy out of it that others were.

The wraith was immediately more accurate for me. After spending some time to learn it, I can lay it down anywhere I want. My only concern is the pro beating up quick. I may have to step up to a champ or star.
TexasOutlaw
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:45 pm
Location: south Texas

wraith/orc

Postby twmccoy » Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:32 pm

I also have found the wraith to be more accurate (in pro, star and CFR) than orcs. Not to mention about 30' longer. I always loved the distance I got with pro orcs, but the damn things are so flippy I can't contol them. I still do like the champ orc though, and it is my second favorite long driver.
twmccoy
Plastic Fondler
 
Posts: 2169
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:07 pm
Location: Littleton, CO

Re: wraith/orc

Postby TexasOutlaw » Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:33 pm

twmccoy wrote:I also have found the wraith to be more accurate (in pro, star and CFR) than orcs. Not to mention about 30' longer. I always loved the distance I got with pro orcs, but the damn things are so flippy I can't contol them. I still do like the champ orc though, and it is my second favorite long driver.


How does the pro wraith compare to the star? I need to get another but don't know if I want another pro or star.
TexasOutlaw
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:45 pm
Location: south Texas

Postby Mark Brunner » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:45 pm

Some will say the star is more overstable, or has a harder left finish at the end. I personally find both to fly similar, however into winds and such I find the star more predictable and consistent.
http://www.gdstour.com
Gateway Disc Sports!
Mark Brunner
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:49 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Wi

wraiths

Postby twmccoy » Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:01 pm

Mark Brunner wrote:Some will say the star is more overstable, or has a harder left finish at the end. I personally find both to fly similar, however into winds and such I find the star more predictable and consistent.


Yep, for me they are about identical, both in distance and glide. The CFR is a little more overstable but not much.
twmccoy
Plastic Fondler
 
Posts: 2169
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:07 pm
Location: Littleton, CO

Re: wraiths

Postby Mark Brunner » Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:42 am

twmccoy wrote:
Mark Brunner wrote:Yep, for me they are about identical, both in distance and glide. The CFR is a little more overstable but not much.


Wow I find the opposite to be true for the CFR. Of about 7 CFR wraiths that I have thrown all have been a lot more understable than the pro/star wraiths that I own.
http://www.gdstour.com
Gateway Disc Sports!
Mark Brunner
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:49 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Wi

Postby Blake_T » Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:58 am

from those i know that have thrown them a lot, they have said the cfr wraiths are more high speed understable, but more low speed overstable.
Blake_T
Super Sekret Technique Jedi
 
Posts: 5824
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 12:44 am
Location: Minneapolis

Postby TexasOutlaw » Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:20 am

Blake_T wrote:from those i know that have thrown them a lot, they have said the cfr wraiths are more high speed understable, but more low speed overstable.


I was going to ask about that. The pro wraith comes back if you turn it for a beauty of a shot. I've only thrown a cfr a handful of times, but it did not come back. Is the star closer to the x or cfr then?
TexasOutlaw
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:45 pm
Location: south Texas

wraith

Postby twmccoy » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:44 pm

Blake_T wrote:from those i know that have thrown them a lot, they have said the cfr wraiths are more high speed understable, but more low speed overstable.


This actually sounds right. I have thrown my CFR (174g) flat and hard and actually had it bend to the right a bit before coming back. At high speed, all the wraiths seem to be similar in stability. The CFR seems to fade the soonest and the hardest, but will flip if thrown with brute force.
twmccoy
Plastic Fondler
 
Posts: 2169
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:07 pm
Location: Littleton, CO

More info

Postby Bradley Walker » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:15 pm

I ordered 3 new STAR WAITHS.

The star Wraiths are about the max of overstable that I can predictably handle and still get good distance.

I got a lime green 166 Star Wraith that simply WILL NOT TURN OVER. It is barely less stable that my FLICK which is "stupid stable". It is awesome into the wind. Into the wind, just rip it flat and it stays flat, then dies left when it runs out of gas, and I am talking about 15 mph Dallas winds. I have a 168 yellow STAR that is about the same. Who would have thought that a WRAITH would be my "go to" disc into the wind? Especially the lightest one I could get. My Stars are much more flip reliable than say a TBird in Star (crazy right?) I cannot imagine needing more stability that the STAR WAITH unless you are a pro MEGA ARM. In fact, the three I have are TOO overstable for me, and I am no wimp (I guess). I throw as far as anyone I know, and have only seen a few guys that can send it out there a whole lot further (I am sure they are there fellas!!! HA!) I would like to see the STARS flip just a bit for calm conditions.

I resorted to getting a Star Beast and a CFR Wraith. The Beast is pretty killer. It should be somewhat flippy, but once again, in the STAR plastic it is not. The CFR is nice and is the most flexible for normal conditions.

The Pro Wraith is more of a turnover disc for me. Especially after a few throws. I had to retire my 171, as it starting fliiping crazy like after a few trees. The STAR plastic is the most stable plastic Innova makes by far (and appears to be indestructible). It completely changes the properties of the discs, over different plastics.

Bottom line, the better the plastic (read that more expensive), the more stable BY A LOT (IMHO).

I have found that if you stick to Star plastic you can go a few notches more flippy on your disc choices, AT LEAST!!!

Innova really needs to change the mold on the Wraith to make it flip a touch easier (for us mere mortals) instead of going to the TEE Rex which is more stable in Pro?. I literally do not know anyone who needs a more stable disc than a STAR Wraith, and the Wraith NEEDS the Star plastic to stay consistent, as the lip is so sharp, one good tree and Pro plastic is screwed.

Actually, what has been hard to get into my hands is a fast turnover disc that will turn SLOWLY and hold a long anheyser line. I have a new CE Roadrunner, and it is a pretty killer disc for turning over. I can roll this thing the best of any "modern" disc I have found. Maybe a STAR SIdewinder....

The glide of the Wraith is unmatched, period. Maybe a 150 class Star Wraith.... hmmm.... when?
Bradley Walker
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3702
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:46 pm
Favorite Disc: Roc

Re: More info

Postby presidio hills » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:41 pm

Bradley Walker wrote:Innova really needs to change the mold on the Wraith to make it flip a touch easier (for us mere mortals) instead of going to the TEE Rex which is more stable in Pro?. I literally do not know anyone who needs a more stable disc than a STAR Wraith, and the Wraith NEEDS the Star plastic to stay consistent, as the lip is so sharp, one good tree and Pro plastic is screwed.

i mean, the pro wraith beat in a bit is a less stable wraith... the fact it's inconsistent probably has more to do with the mold. have you thought about trying something like a champion teebird or eagle? the eagle is probably a tad less overstable than a wraith... the teebird even less overstable... both are more high speed stable (and more consistent as a result) but you can flip 'em from a hyzer about as easily as a cfr wraith.
presidio hills
Fairway Surgeon
 
Posts: 625
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:04 pm
Location: san francisco

More...

Postby Bradley Walker » Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:33 am

Just got back from playing.

I still stand by the statement that the Star Wraith is extremely reliable as an overtable disc into the wind.

The Star Beast is a killer. I love this thing. Throw it with just a tick of heyer and it flips anheyer nose down and screams (with very Wraith like glide I might add) for a long way and ten falls out of the sky straight or just a little left. It will even tolerate a little height without stalling.

For low bullets I use my 162 Orcs and 168 Valkyrie. Threw a 3 foot high 400' throw today. 50' past the basket with my Orc.

Alas, for anything under 300' I still like my 175 XD the best... it literally goes "right where you point it".

Man, I want a Star XD bad.

My wife throws her 140 gram Roc the best.
Bradley Walker
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3702
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:46 pm
Favorite Disc: Roc

Re: More...

Postby Thatdirtykid » Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:36 am

Bradley Walker wrote:
I still stand by the statement that the Star Wraith is extremely reliable as an overtable disc into the wind.




Dont mean to be rude or anything, but although the star is the most (over)stable of the wraiths, It still has too much high speed turn to be that great into the wind. It is one of the longest discs into the right headwind, however its often one ofthe squirreliest/inconsistant/predictable discs in the wind.
Z Pred-ESP Cyclone-Z Force-Z Aftershock-Z Comet-Ion-Pro Rhyno
Thatdirtykid
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3673
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:35 am
Location: Longmont Co
Favorite Disc: z pred

Re: More...

Postby Bradley Walker » Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:57 am

Thatdirtykid wrote:
Bradley Walker wrote:
I still stand by the statement that the Star Wraith is extremely reliable as an overtable disc into the wind.




Dont mean to be rude or anything, but although the star is the most (over)stable of the wraiths, It still has too much high speed turn to be that great into the wind. It is one of the longest discs into the right headwind, however its often one ofthe squirreliest/inconsistant/predictable discs in the wind.


That is what I keep hearing, but of my three new Star Wraiths, only one is unpredictable into the wind. I took that one and started tuning it to fly like Pro Wraith (more flip). I have a lime green 166g Wraith that simply will not flip. Ceratinly as predictable as my two TeeBirds (CE and Star) into the wind.
Bradley Walker
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3702
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:46 pm
Favorite Disc: Roc

Next

Return to Equipment

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot] and 4 guests