FPS Question

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FPS Question

Postby dgdave » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:47 pm

Would 60 FPS give me good enough resolution to get decent slow month videos?
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Re: FPS Question

Postby JHern » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:23 pm

I'm wondering the same thing...most digital photography-oriented cameras are running at 24-30 FPS. They're getting 720p HD resolution, but the frame rate is not very high. Of course, the frame rate can increase on some cameras at lower frame resolution.
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Re: FPS Question

Postby Blink » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:24 pm

I'd guess the wrist/hand would probably still blurr during the hit but forearm would be visible throughout.
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Re: FPS Question

Postby dgdave » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:13 pm

I guess i'll find out soon enough. I found a kodak Zi6 on sale for $50 and couldn't pass it up.
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Re: FPS Question

Postby Star Shark » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:16 pm

In the vids I've seen posted, 240fps seems to be the butter zone... check this footage of brad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25URkzDs3Sw
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Re: FPS Question

Postby JHern » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:41 pm

Yeah, I went back and looked a videos from 15 FPS to 60 FPS. It seems like 15 FPS is too slow, and you only get a few frames in the throwing motion. 30 FPS is enough to see how the body position is changing and oriented throughout the throw. 60 FPS is even better, but not anywhere good enough for smooth slow motion.

Animix wrote:In the vids I've seen posted, 240fps seems to be the butter zone... check this footage of brad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25URkzDs3Sw


This is f#$%ing sweet!!! 8) 240 FPS, damn!
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Re: FPS Question

Postby mafa » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:39 am

Yeah, frame rate gives you smoothness. The slow motion videos I have posted here at DGR are shot at 250 and 300 fps depending on the camera used. Since ~25 fps gives illusion of smooth motion, 250 fps can be slowed down 10x.

On the other hand, slower frame rates can also provide useful data provided the format is progressive (not interlaced) and the exposure time is short enough. Here's an example of 1080p 25p footage at 1/1000 s exposure time slowed down 5 times. Each frame is pretty sharp due to the short exposure time but the motion is not smooth per se.

Image

On a side note, Lundmark seems to have his middle finger extended under the disc. Or he's ripping of it. Any thoughts?

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Re: FPS Question

Postby rehder » Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:15 pm

His throws look so effortless
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Re: FPS Question

Postby black udder » Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:56 pm

rehder wrote:His throws look so effortless


Really? It looks to me like he's really throwing! :) He has late acceleration that you can really see because of his distinctive throw.

As for FPS, 60 isn't bad, but I think you suffer in stopping (it'll be blurred) or what you want to see is in between frames and you can't freeze it there.

It's good enough for you to look at and do analysis, just not like that sweet footage of Brad and the European slow mo.
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Re: FPS Question

Postby JHern » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:49 pm

mafa wrote:Image


Nice example, the fast exposure seems necessary to avoid blurring, but you can analyze his throw just fine using 25 FPS.

mafa wrote:On a side note, Lundmark seems to have his middle finger extended under the disc. Or he's ripping of it. Any thoughts?

I don't see it. He does lean forward a lot more than I'm used to seeing other throwers do, but his mechanics are indeed beautiful.
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Re: FPS Question

Postby mafa » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:39 am

I don't see it. He does lean forward a lot more than I'm used to seeing other throwers do, but his mechanics are indeed beautiful.


If you look at his right hand in the follow through, his middle finger is extended. I have no idea why or how this happens. As if he's not gripping with middle finger at all. Is this one of the known grips?

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Re: FPS Question

Postby JHern » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:33 am

mafa wrote:
I don't see it. He does lean forward a lot more than I'm used to seeing other throwers do, but his mechanics are indeed beautiful.


If you look at his right hand in the follow through, his middle finger is extended. I have no idea why or how this happens. As if he's not gripping with middle finger at all. Is this one of the known grips?

Matti


Ah yes, I see what you're saying.

From Innova's site:
Image
Birdie Grip – Bottom View: This is an accuracy power grip. Three finger pads are pressed against the inside wall of the rim. The middle finger opposes the thumb pad on the flight plate. This grip is not quite as powerful as the Four-Finger Power Grip, but it gives the thrower a greater feel for the disc and provides additional accuracy.

Or maybe he's just flipping us all off! :lol:
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Re: FPS Question

Postby JR » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:46 am

JHern wrote:
mafa wrote:Image


Nice example, the fast exposure seems necessary to avoid blurring, but you can analyze his throw just fine using 25 FPS.

mafa wrote:On a side note, Lundmark seems to have his middle finger extended under the disc. Or he's ripping of it. Any thoughts?

I don't see it. He does lean forward a lot more than I'm used to seeing other throwers do, but his mechanics are indeed beautiful.


Only some types of analyses can be done with 25 FPS like rhythm. Viewing frame by frame onset of arm acceleration and wrist opening etc. are much easier to pin point at 200+ FPS. RPMs definitely need higher frame rates for accuracy and it doesn't hurt in launch speed determination. I've watched DG DVDs critically for dozens of hours if not hundreds and it's a matter of luck to see form specifics from them. I think were the camera takes a picture makes a difference to seeing how the hand moves. I've seen approaches from the same player on the same day on DVD that are impossible to analyze around the wrist opening while a full power rip is easy to see. We had this discussion with mafa on Sunday two weeks ago and that's the reason he posted full speed and several differently slowed down versions of the same throws.

You can see most of form specifics at 25 FPS and nothing relevant frame by frame until you really crank up the frame rate. For the full story you need to watch real time and high frame rate footage slowed down and picture by picture in sequence.

For camera technical requirements read up some 1080p camera reviews at www.camcorderinfo.com
Things like bit rate and color accuracy influence picture accuracy of single images in a video. You certainly do need a fast exposure time manual override, sensitive sensor and a lot of light.
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