Monocacy’s bag: forehand now included!

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Monocacy’s bag: forehand now included!

Postby Monocacy » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:05 am

I throw RHBH and (starting just recently) RHFH. Flat-ground distance (per Google Earth) is 270’ backhand, with occasional freak throws to 300’. Not great, but not too bad for an old fart (and I'm working on it). Forehand distance has improved rapidly – about 250’ today, up from 200’ a couple of weeks ago – so lately I have been throwing a lot more forehand tee shots.

Comments, suggestions, and answers to the questions below are welcomed and appreciated.

“Distance” drivers: (250 – 300’)
162 Star Sidewinder: Understable distance. Sidewinders were in the bag before I had a bag, so this is my most comfortable distance driver. I throw it forehand or backhand unless throwing a turnover is dangerous.
162 Star Valkyrie: Not-quite-as-understable distance. The Star Valkyrie will replace a pair of 165 DX Valkyries that beat up way too quickly. I am also trying out a 164g Gold Line Vision, which flies like a Sidewinder / Valkyrie hybrid and could possibly replace both.

Fairway drivers: (to 260’ max, 240’ reliably)
163 Star TeeBird: Headwinds, stable backhands, and primary forehand driver. I love how the TeeBird locks onto straight, and throw it whenever possible. I also carry 163 DX TeeBirds from time to time.
162 Star TL or 166 ESP XL: These are competing for line-shaping duties, backhand and forehand. The TL seems longer, so if it can work lines it will beat out the XL. I was throwing a Sirius JLS in this slot, but missed the XL’s healthy fade. Would a Quantum JLS fade more than Sirius?
163 Star Leopard: Understable fairway. I use this for narrow wooded fairways and standstill distance. I keep trying to replace this with a JLS, but the Leo keeps fighting back into the bag.

Utility:
166 DX Whippet: Overheads, forehand drives, get-out-of-trouble shots, strong headwinds. This is fairly new to the bag, but I love having a ridiculously overstable disc. The original has straightened out considerably, so I will be getting a replacement. Would a Firebird / Banshee / EXP1 fill this slot but travel farther? Any other suggestions within my limited power range?

Midranges: (to 240’ max, 200’ reliably)
166 Z Buzzz: Stable midrange. I use this for straight shots, gentle hysers, mild headwinds, forehands, short overheads, and even gentle turnovers if enough height is available. I rotate two Z-Glo Buzzzes in warm weather, and recently picked up an orange Z for visibility in the snow.
168 Z Comet: Understable midrange. Comets are new this fall. I practice with them a lot and they have helped clean up my form, but I do not yet trust them on the course.

Putters: (to 220’ max, 180’ reliably)
168 SS Magic: Putting putter. This holds a straight line the longest for me. Now I just need to finish building a practice basket and, um, practice. A lot.
169 SS Warlock: Approaches, headwind putts, short drives.
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Re: Monocacy’s bag: forehand now included!

Postby keltik » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:05 am

your bag looks fine for a good backhand hyzer-flip player, but it's not so good for forehand. you're gonna need something more stable like say a Z Avenger or an Orc for good FH distance. and yes a FB, Banshee/EXP-1, Predator or XXX would fill the slot of your Whippet and go farther but not really by much.

Since you allude to being an older player (over 40 maybe) I don't know if I would recommend developing a forehand game too rapidly as it can lead to elbow problems.

Man i guess i'm to the point where XL and healthy fade don't go in the same sentence. But don't sweat it, I still rock the hell out of the XL.
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Re: Monocacy’s bag: forehand now included!

Postby rooneytunes » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:48 am

DX whippets are grossly under appreciated. When new, throw some thumbers until it beats a little, then it turns into an ace forehand disc. Once beat a little, they can take a lot of torque and lock into a straight line w/ a nice predictable fade. Keep tossing whippets!!
Now I need to go get a new one...
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Re: Monocacy’s bag: forehand now included!

Postby Monocacy » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:25 pm

Keltik, thank you for your thoughts.

keltik wrote:you're gonna need something more stable like say a Z Avenger or an Orc for good FH distance.

I think you are right about needing a more stable distance driver. The TeeBird works fine for now, and I have a MOLF and E Apache in the closet if needed. Avenger seems pretty beefy, but Orc sounds like a ton of fun if I can get some more distance on my throws.

Since you allude to being an older player (over 40 maybe) I don't know if I would recommend developing a forehand game too rapidly as it can lead to elbow problems.

Hah, I’m way closer to 50 than 40. I do appreciate the warning about elbow problems, and try to keep my forehand throws very smooth. So far I have not felt any elbow strain. I actually have more joint issues throwing backhand because my pivot knee is missing a few chunks of cartilage.

Man i guess i'm to the point where XL and healthy fade don't go in the same sentence. But don't sweat it, I still rock the hell out of the XL.

:lol: Yeah, I can see that. My ESP XL does have a strong finishing fade compared with a JLS or even a TeeBird. I miss that fade on holes like this one at Seneca, where I want the drive to travel straight down the fairway and then fade strongly to the basket (off to the left behind the trees). I can do this shot with an XL, but a TeeBird or JLS just want to go straight.

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Re: Monocacy’s bag: forehand now included!

Postby Monocacy » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:26 pm

rooneytunes wrote:DX whippets are grossly under appreciated. When new, throw some thumbers until it beats a little, then it turns into an ace forehand disc. Once beat a little, they can take a lot of torque and lock into a straight line w/ a nice predictable fade. Keep tossing whippets!!
Now I need to go get a new one...

Rooneytunes, glad to meet another Whippet fan. Mine has started going too far and too straight (not a problem I have very often!), so it is time for a fresh one.
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Re: Monocacy’s bag: forehand now included!

Postby Pwingles » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:54 am

someone mentioned an orc, i noticed all your discs are fairly light, maybe if an orc doesnt work, possibly a heavier champ or star valk would be a bit more stable, or a good option if the orc is too stable for you
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Re: Monocacy’s bag: forehand now included!

Postby Monocacy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:18 pm

Roc Lover wrote:someone mentioned an orc, i noticed all your discs are fairly light, maybe if an orc doesnt work, possibly a heavier champ or star valk would be a bit more stable, or a good option if the orc is too stable for you

Roc lover, thank you for your suggestion. I finally scraped together a few nickels, and ordered pair of Star Valkyries (one light, one heavier), a pair of 165 P CDs, and a fresh DX Whippet.

Forehand setback: I tweaked my hip throwing forehand in the snow. Fortunately, backhand throws are unaffected, but it will be two weeks of rest and Advil before I can resume working on my forehand. Advancing age has many positives, but frigging joint durability isn’t one of them.

Assuming that my gimpy hip heals and forehand distance continues to improve, I will be working towards a simpler, somewhat more forehand-friendly collection of discs. As always, suggestions and comments are welcomed.

Stable control drivers:
163 Star Teebird
163 DX Teebird: I was tossing this the other day, and it made me wonder why I don’t throw it more often. Sucker was going dead straight with very little fade. I hate throwing soft plastic into trees, but I need to see if a DX Teebird rotation can replace the Star Leopard for tunnel shots in the woods.

Distance drivers:
161 and 166 Star Valkyrie: Probably lighter for backhand and heavier for forehand. We will see if these can kick the Sidewinder out of the bag.

Understable drivers:
162 Star TL and 166 ESP XL: Still fighting it out. XL is easier to work backhand, but TL seems more forehand-friendly.
163 Star Leopard: Pre-Comets, I used 150 Champ Leopards as my OAT detectors. Consequently, I have probably thrown Leopards more than I have thrown any other disc. The Leopard may or may not stay in the bag, but its familiarity is comforting.

Moderately overstable drivers:
165 P CD: Two on order, and I hope they will fill the moderately overstable slot. We shall see.

Very overstable drivers:
166 DX Whippet x 2: I will stick with Whippets for now, so I ordered a backup. One beat for short hyzer forehands, one fresh for trick shots.

Midranges: No change here.
166 Z Buzzz
168 Z Comet

Putters:
I switched to a pitch putt, courtesy of the Dave Feldberg putting video, so putters are up in the air until I can try this technique on a real basket. I would love to limit putters to one mold, probably low 170s for approaches / short drives and mid-high 160s for putting. Warlocks or Wizards will get first crack at the job, but Magic is in the running for the putting putter slot.

Thoughts? Recommendations? Snide comments?
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Re: Monocacy’s bag: forehand now included!

Postby Monocacy » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:57 pm

The gimpy hip healed but now the shoulder is complaining about backhand. Dealing with creaky joints gets annoying, but I don’t plan to go gentle into that good night. Anyway, not much progress on backhand but forehand distance is up to 300’ so I have changed the bag accordingly.

Stable control drivers:
163 DX Teebird: Beat, for tunnel shots in the woods. Thrashed Teebirds inspire way more confidence than Leopards, which are out of the bag for now.
166 DX Teebird: Newish, for headwinds and fades (replaced a 163 Star Teebird).

Distance drivers:
166 Star Valkyrie: Forehand distance.
162 Star Valkyrie: Backhand, downwind, and uphill distance.

Understable drivers:
166 ESP XL: Teebirds for straight and XL for S-curves (both thrown forehand and backhand) cover a lot of fairway shots.
163 ESP XL: Lighter for turnovers, uphill shots, standstill distance, and powered-down shots that are a little too long for a midrange.

Moderately overstable drivers:
165 S CD: This is my longest forehand disc. Flies like a newish P CD, but I hope the S CD stays in the sweet spot longer. A broken-in P CD overlaps with the Valkyries.

Very overstable drivers:
166 DX Whippet: I find new reasons to love this disc every time I play, but it is not great in a headwind.

Midranges:
166 Z Buzzz: Primary midrange, thrown forehand and backhand. I may pick up a flat X Buzzz or two for midrange shots where I want more turn or float. Z Comets have been relegated to the practice bag for now, but may return if I can clean up my backhand. I have tried a 170 DX Roc but cannot get a clean forehand release.

Putters: Sticking with one mold seems to help consistency.
168 S Warlock: Putting putter. This won putting trials this winter (vs. Magic, Wizard, and Voodoo), so I ordered a stack of backups.
171 SS Warlock: Approach putter (replaced 174 SS Warlocks)
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Re: Monocacy’s bag: forehand now included!

Postby Monocacy » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:31 pm

Quite a few changes, especially putters and midranges. I throw everything forehand and backhand (some discs better than others), maxing out around 300’ either way. Comments and suggestions welcomed as always.

Stable control drivers:
163 DX Teebirds: Beat-up, for tunnel shots and gentle sweeping hyzers.
166 DX Teebird: Moderate headwinds, fades, and downhill distance.

Distance drivers:
162 Star Valkyrie: This is my longest disc forehand and backhand.
166 DX Valkyrie: Testing, for turnovers and accuracy-be-damned distance.

Understable drivers:
163 ESP XL: I have become quite fond of this disc for multidirectional fairway drives and uphill distance. I could use a backup, but light ESP XLs are hard to find. I would also like to hear more about the Lat64 River.

Moderately overstable drivers:
165 S CD: Flattened hyzers, flex shots, and moderate headwinds. This is my most reliable forehand driver.
165 P CD: Longer than the S CD, but in and out of the bag because it overlaps somewhat with the Star Valk.

Very overstable drivers: In flux. I have been using a 166 DX Whippet, but a fresh Roc can handle dogleg approach shots with enough headroom. No love for the DX Firebird, which is probably too much disc for me.
166 DX Banshee: Testing. I hope that this will penetrate headwinds better than the Whippet, while handling overhands and trick shots. If this beats out the Whippet, I may try a Champion Banshee in similar weight.

Midranges:
168-70 DX Rocs I figured out how to forehand Rocs cleanly, so the Z Buzzz is out for now. I find the Roc easier to range and more versatile.
168-171 Gold Line Fuse: These fly like less-touchy Comets, so I am using them for no-fade tunnel shots, turnovers, and gentle glidey hyzers. With a tailwind, the Fuse flies nearly as far as my fairway drivers.

Putters: Wizards in, Warlocks out (so much for sticking with one mold). Either disc works fine as a putting putter, but I get a cleaner forehand release with the Wizard. My dear wife gave me a practice basket, I switched to a push putt, and putting has become (perhaps by default) the strongest part of my game.
168-70 S Wizard: Putting putter
171-2 S Wizard: Approaches and short drives.
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Re: Monocacy’s bag: forehand now included!

Postby Monocacy » Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:47 am

Edit: Simplified the bag and modified descriptions after playing a round tonight.

300’ throws are becoming more common after much work with putters and midranges. Consequently, I am shifting the bag towards slower drivers to improve control and to avoid developing bad habits. Specific changes:

DX Gazelles hold court as stable control driver, so I promoted DX Teebirds to the moderately overstable slot. CDs are out of the bag. Gazelles hold lovely annies even when fresh, so I am also using them as my understable driver.

GL River has taken over distance driver duties from the Valkyrie. After cleaning up my throw, the Star Valks lost their (presumably OAT-aided) distance.

I will be trying the Magic (again) as my putting putter. I have had trouble playing the Wizard's fade on 30- to 40-footers.

Suggestions welcomed, as always.

Stable control driver:
165 DX Gazelles: Last time I played, most of my good drives were with the Gazelle. Highly predictable, highly versatile, surprisingly long, and comfortably within my power range. Count me as a Gazelle convert.

Distance driver:
162 Gold Line River: This flies at least as far as any of my other discs, and seems quite controllable on hyzer, S-curve, and turnover lines. I will be ordering back-ups and probably trying a few different weights.

Understable driver:
165 DX Gazelles: All are new at the moment, but I expect to beat some in fairly soon.

Moderately overstable drivers:
166 DX Teebird: Forehand drives, moderate headwinds, and fades. I have not missed the CDs.

Very overstable driver:
166 DX Banshee or 165 Champ Banshee: Haven’t decided between these two. I have had some nice throws with the DX, but I can do a lot of the same lines with a Teebird so the Champ may win out. I have not yet tested the Banshee on overheads (dang creaky shoulder) or strong headwinds.

Midranges:
168-70 DX Rocs: I have been throwing Rocs off the tee more often, and they often fly as far as my fairway drivers but with more control. I would like to try a light Roc, perhaps low 160s, for uphill drives.
168 Gold Line Fuse: Pure sweetness for tunnels, holds hyzer and anhyzer lines nicely, and glides forever downwind.

Putters:
168 SS Magic: Putting putter.
171 S Wizard: Approaches, short drives, and windy putts.
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Re: Monocacy’s bag: forehand now included!

Postby Monocacy » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:30 pm

Made a few changes for my first tournament. I threw Gazelles and Rocs on most tee shots, and often regretted driving with anything else.

Stable control driver:
165 DX Gazelle x 2: (one new, one seasoned): If I could only throw one driver, this would be it.

Understable driver:
165 DX Gazelle (beat): One repeatedly-tacoed Gazelle holds predictable turnover and hyzer-flip lines. I play lots of wooded courses, so I expect to generate a steady stream of replacements.

Distance driver:
162 Gold Line River: This is my longest disc, and seems quite workable on a variety of lines as long as I keep the nose down.
150 Star Valkyrie: Testing. I like to carry a 150-gram driver for uphill distance.

Moderately overstable drivers:
165 DX Eagle or 165 DX Banshee (seasoned): The beat Banshee is OK for now, but I need to thrash an Eagle to see if it becomes magical.

Very overstable driver:
165 DX Banshee (newish)

Midranges:
168-70 DX Rocs:
168 Gold Line Fuse:

Putters:
166 S Wizard X-out: Putting putter. I tried the Magic, but found the Wizard to be more reliable.
170 SS Wizard: I prefer softs for driving and approaching, but the supersofts are flatter and fly better for me.
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Monocacy's bag: Older, wiser, lighter?

Postby Monocacy » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:00 am

I switched to 150-gram drivers over the winter. Gazelles were the most difficult disc to replace, but after trying quite a few candidates (thus the bloated trade thread - feel free to make an offer), eventually settled on DX Teebirds for their familiarity and reliability. After testing lighter mids and putters, I decided to stick with weights in the 160s.

Backhand is still stuck around 300' and forehand distance is about 10% shorter. I throw pretty much everything in the bag BH and FH, but I try to limit the number of FH drives to save wear and tear on my shoulder. Eight molds, 11 or 12 discs unless I get a bigger bag (and a Gorilla Boy Silverback is very tempting . . .). Comments and suggestions welcomed as always.

STABLE CONTROL DRIVER:
150 DX Teebird x 2: One fresh, working on one seasoned

MODERATELY OVERSTABLE DRIVER:
150 Champ Teebird: Headwinds and strong fades. I rarely throw this unless the wind is howling, so I may test a 150 S CD in this slot.

UNDERSTABLE DRIVER:
150 Champ Leopard: Essential in the woods, and first choice for uphill and downhill drives, hyzer flips, and glidey hyzers.
150 Star Leopard: Testing

DISTANCE DRIVER:
150 Star Valkyrie: BH and FH distance
150 Champ Valkyrie: Testing. Ideally I would like to carry one fresh Valk and one that is easier to turn.

VERY OVERSTABLE DRIVER:
150 Champ Banshee: Overstable stuff, trick shots, headwinds. Also handy when I am having trouble flicking mids and putters.

MIDRANGES:
165-168 DX Roc: Gonna play around and see what weight works best, but so far heavier flies farther and better tolerates my forehand OAT. A Roc thrown on a BH flex line often rivals my drivers for distance.
162 DX Roc: Trying to beat up a lighter Roc for turnovers and throwing uphill
165 Z Comet: The other essential woods disc
164 X Comet: A little less LSS than the Z Comet, for zero-fade finishes and turnovers

PUTTERS:
166 S Wizard: Stable approaches and short drives
165 SS Magic: Putting putter and straight approaches
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Re: Monocacy’s bag: forehand now included!

Postby Monocacy » Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:06 am

No tournaments until July, so I am testing some new discs. Forehand drives have been killing my shoulder so I need a fairway driver that I can control on a variety of turnover / anhyzer lines. Can't have a bag without Teebirds, so they will shift to the moderately overstable slot.

Suggestions welcomed as always.

STABLE CONTROL DRIVER:
M Polaris LS 150 or Diamond Light 154-7: I fondly hope that one of these will be the easy-throwing yet versatile fairway driver of my dreams. I wish Milennium made a 150 Q PLS, but I might try the S PLS if I need a little more stability.

UNDERSTABLE DRIVER:
Undetermined. Could be a seasoned M PLS or Diamond, or perhaps the Champ Valk. The 150 Champ Leopard held this slot for a long time, but I prefer a turnover driver with a little more LSS to cover up for my mistakes.

DISTANCE:
Valkyrie Star 153: Fairly stable at my distance
Valkyrie Champ 150: Easier to turn compared with the Star Valk

MODERATELY OVERSTABLE:
Teebird DX 150 (fresh): Stable workhorse.
Teebird DX 150 (beat): I need to stop losing these as soon as they are nicely seasoned.
Teebird Champ 150: Shorter, but scoffs at roaring headwinds.

VERY OVERSTABLE:
Banshee Champ 153: Overstable stuff, and get-out-of-trouble shots. I have started working on a FH roller with occasional success.

MIDRANGES:
Pain Opto 165: Can the Pain kick the Roc out of the bag?
Comet Z 161-3 or ESP 167-70: I have been throwing these in the woods instead of Leopards. The ESP Comets are fairly new and pretty stable, but I look forward to seeing how they fly after breaking in a bit.

PUTTERS:
Ion S 168-9 x 2: One for putting, one for approaches. I prefer to carry one putter mold, so we will see if the Ion can kick the Wizard and Magic out of the bag.
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Re: Monocacy’s bag: forehand now included!

Postby Monocacy » Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:25 pm

I am looking for advice on a moderately overstable 150ish driver for a stuck-at-300' thrower. I am looking for a disc (perhaps mythical) that will:
- Fit neatly between Valks and Teebirds in stability
- Rival Valks in distance; and
- Stand up to most headwinds (for comparison, I am comfortable throwing 150 Star Valks into pretty strong headwinds)

Discs I am considering:
Viking Champ 150 - I have always found 160s Vikings to be glideless and short. What are the chances that I'll like 150 Champ Vikes better?
Orc Star or Champ 150 - Too much disc?
Avenger ESP 150 - Too much disc? Teebird overlap? How does the plastic hold up?

Discs I have tried so far:
P PD 150 - mixed results, but probably too much disc since I develop OAT after throwing it too often
Surge X 150 - flew like a Valkyrie and beat-up fast


Otherwise, the bag has been pretty stable since early summer. Diamonds beat out Polaris LS for the understable slot, and Rocs are back in the bag after a short fling with Pains. Forehand approaches are slowly returning after revamping my throw and rehabbing my shoulder, but forehand distance has not yet returned.


STABLE CONTROL DRIVER

Teebird DX 150 x 2: I add a 150 Star / Echo TB on windy days.

UNDERSTABLE DRIVER

Diamond Light Opto 153: High-parting line Diamonds are like mini-Valks, easy to work on different lines, and they get remarkable distance on standstill throws.

DISTANCE DRIVER

Valkyrie Star 153: Fairly stable
Valkyrie Champ 150: Easier to turn

MODERATELY OVERSTABLE DRIVER

?????? (See introductory paragraph)

VERY OVERSTABLE DRIVER

Banshee Champ 153

MIDRANGES

Roc DX 165 x 2 (one fresh, one seasoned)
Comet Z 162: Money in the woods.

PUTTERS

Ion S 166-7 x 2: Putting, approaches, and short drives.
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Re: Monocacy’s bag: forehand now included!

Postby keltik » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:20 pm

I think you may like the QOLF in 150. Marmoset used to rock those in his all 150 back. you may also try the QJLS in 150. Its flight is very similar to our old friend the XL.

ESP plastic does hold up well but I don't know how much so in 150 class. what are you looking for this moderately OS driver to do?

bag looks solid otherwise.
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