disc in a tunnel, tube etc?

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Re: disc in a tunnel, tube etc?

Postby curt » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:42 pm

Also, what about the little phrase that says something along the lines of "If a solid object prevents you from taking a stance, you are allowed to take relief directly behind the object?
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Re: disc in a tunnel, tube etc?

Postby Roy » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:44 pm

I'd say Frank needs to throw from inside the tube. Play it as it lies.
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Re: disc in a tunnel, tube etc?

Postby Frank Delicious » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:11 pm

But I didn't throw it in the tube. Don't unfairly handicap me because you can't avoid a gaping hole.
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Re: disc in a tunnel, tube etc?

Postby Billym » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:58 pm

So after the whole " I lost a disc outside my house and never got it.." thing what is the ruling?
So far it is unclear. Also what about the "solid object" ruling? What if a disc is leaning against a tree so you cannot get your foot behind it?
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Re: disc in a tunnel, tube etc?

Postby Timko » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:04 am

Frank Delicious wrote:Don't unfairly handicap me because you can't avoid a gaping hole.


That's what she said.

Something about a hotdog and a hallway?
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Re: disc in a tunnel, tube etc?

Postby Timko » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:05 am

Frank Delicious wrote:Could the law of verticality come into play and you could putt standing on top of where your disc is?


This was my 3rd way to interpret the rule.

Where the hell is Chuck? I've never seen him pass on a rules question before.
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Re: disc in a tunnel, tube etc?

Postby Mark Ellis » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:22 am

If you are playing in my group I give you the lie on top of the disc, no penalty, under the Rule of Verticality. If you are playing in Chuck Kennedy's group he gives you the Unplayable Lie with the stroke penalty. We are both totally convinced we did the right thing, only Chuck is wrong. :)

Of course, the TD should have anticipated this eventuality and given casual relief to anyone who ends up there.
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Re: disc in a tunnel, tube etc?

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:30 am

If only you actually wrote the Rule of Verticality to cover this situation when you could have done so in the 2002 Rulebook update. But you didn't so we follow the rule that's acutally in there which is Unplayable Lie.
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Re: disc in a tunnel, tube etc?

Postby Timko » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:35 am

Chuck Kennedy wrote:If only you actually wrote the Rule of Verticality to cover this situation when you could have done so in the 2002 Rulebook update. But you didn't so we follow the rule that's acutally in there which is Unplayable Lie.


Chuck, if you're less than 5m from the disc though, you can take free relief from the object under the stance relief, right?
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Re: disc in a tunnel, tube etc?

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:56 am

Based on the scenario in the first post, if you can't physically get into the tube to take a legal stance, then the Unplayable Lie rule is used unless the TD has provided some other form of relief for dealing with this occasionally recurring issue on this hole. And frankly, the Course Pro or TD should have addressed this long ago with how to play it so the situation is handled consistently. Ideally it sounds like the end of the tube should be closed off with a mesh if it's necessary that water still be able to flow out of it.

As an example where the solid object relief rule could be used, consider a concrete pipe 5 feet long lying on the ground horizontally that is about 18 " in diameter, something you can't get into. Let's say your disc lands exactly in the middle of the pipe. If the pipe is lined up with the open ends in line with the basket, you need to attempt to get your foot in there to take a stance or take an Unplayable penalty.

If the pipe is on an angle to the basket, then you can use the solid object relief rule and mark outside the pipe on the line of play behind it with no penalty. It's the same as if your disc landed in a permanently placed trash can. If the TD states that the pipe can be considered a playing surface and lies inside can be moved vertically to the top of the pipe with no penalty, then you have the TD using verticality as an option that isn't specifically allowed by the rules unless the TD indicates that is how relief can be taken.
Last edited by Chuck Kennedy on Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:14 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: disc in a tunnel, tube etc?

Postby Timko » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:08 am

Oh, OK. I re-read the relief rule, and you only get 5m of relief from casual objects. Since the pipe is part of the course, it's not casual, right?
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Re: disc in a tunnel, tube etc?

Postby Jeronimo » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:27 am

Chuck Kennedy wrote:
As an example where the solid object relief rule could be used, consider a concrete pipe 5 feet long lying on the ground horizontally that is about 18 " in diameter, something you can't get into. Let's say your disc lands exactly in the middle of the pipe.


This reminds me of something that happened to me...
I am dumb.

...and a drama queen.
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Re: disc in a tunnel, tube etc?

Postby Billym » Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:11 pm

Chuck Kennedy wrote:Based on the scenario in the first post, if you can't physically get into the tube to take a legal stance, then the Unplayable Lie rule is used unless the TD has provided some other form of relief for dealing with this occasionally recurring issue on this hole. And frankly, the Course Pro or TD should have addressed this long ago with how to play it so the situation is handled consistently. Ideally it sounds like the end of the tube should be closed off with a mesh if it's necessary that water still be able to flow out of it.

As an example where the solid object relief rule could be used, consider a concrete pipe 5 feet long lying on the ground horizontally that is about 18 " in diameter, something you can't get into. Let's say your disc lands exactly in the middle of the pipe. If the pipe is lined up with the open ends in line with the basket, you need to attempt to get your foot in there to take a stance or take an Unplayable penalty.

If the pipe is on an angle to the basket, then you can use the solid object relief rule and mark outside the pipe on the line of play behind it with no penalty. It's the same as if your disc landed in a permanently placed trash can. If the TD states that the pipe can be considered a playing surface and lies inside can be moved vertically to the top of the pipe with no penalty, then you have the TD using verticality as an option that isn't specifically allowed by the rules unless the TD indicates that is how relief can be taken.


Thanks Chuck.
The pipe is horizontal to the basket so one could putt with their foot directly behind their disc on the outside of the pipe. In this case standing on top of the pipe with make the putt much easier because now all that needs to be done is "drop" it into the basket.
Thanks for the answers.
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