Gays serving openly in the military

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Re: Gays serving openly in the military

Postby Flipflat » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:39 pm

Frank Delicious wrote:
Flipflat wrote:The only problem with gays serving openly is the risk of harassment and division among their fellow soldiers. Could cause alot of unnecessary drama. You and I are cool with gays in the military, but unfortunately not everybody is so tolerant, and NEVER will be. Some people like to hate, probably because that's the way they were hardwired at a young age.


Ah yes the old "better not upset the bigots" argument. I'm quite familiar with that line of reasoning since I live in the south.


Ok, well, then upset the bigots. See what happens. Do you think a moment will come when all the bigots are like "you know what? gays aint so bad after all". Violent incidents in the military towards gays would sharply increase (from whatever rate it's at now) if gays were more open. I think soldiers have enough to worry about as it is.
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Re: Gays serving openly in the military

Postby Frank Delicious » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:42 pm

Sorry Gays, you gotta stay out of the military. Some bigots hate you and will beat you up for being gay. We just gonna cave to their hate and keep you completely out of the military.


"we don't negotiate with terrists [bigots]" - George H W Bush
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Re: Gays serving openly in the military

Postby Flipflat » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:45 pm

Frank Delicious wrote:Sorry Gays, you gotta stay out of the military. Some bigots hate you and will beat you up for being gay. We just gonna cave to their hate and keep you completely out of the military.


"we don't negotiate with terrists [bigots]" - George H W Bush


I never said keep them out. Don't ask, don't tell. It's no one's business anyway.

But I do agree, we shouldn't negotiate with terrorists.
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Re: Gays serving openly in the military

Postby Frank Delicious » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:55 pm

I'm just giving you a hard time because I'm bored at work. I know what you mean.

Plus it was fun quoting GHWB.
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Re: Gays serving openly in the military

Postby Jeronimo » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:05 pm

That's one of my favorite lines from Superbad:

"You know why I have to kill these guys? Because we don't negotiate with terrorists."

Aren't there more important things for military men and women to focus their time on? Like staying alive? We don't send our military men and women overseas to procreate so why should it even be brought up? Don't ask, don't tell (it's of no ones concern). Right??

What if a couple gay dudes are in a platoon of all dudes, aren't the straight members of the platoon then at a disadvantage?
I am dumb.

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Re: Gays serving openly in the military

Postby black udder » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:12 pm

Jsw wrote:Hmm, I can(as usual) see both sides of it. I guess I lean more to allowing gays to serve openly. However, how about a polling of active military servicemen on their opinions on it?

Long post coming - read bottom for summary.

If the majority of active duty personnel support allowing gays to serve openly - then why the hell not? If polling shows that it would hurt the morale and efficiency of the armed forces, then I think you would have to go about it in a different way.

Because regardless of where I stand on equal rights - I think that the actual people serving in the trenches and getting shot at should have the most input on major legislation that will effect their daily lives. I know this probably isn't going to be a popular opinion. However, I just feel like these men & women stand ready to protect our democracy every single day of the year - and they should at least be able to have some say in how they do so.

I am very sympathetic to how gays & lesbians must feel having to "hide" their lifestyle while in the military environment - but its called "the service" for a reason. You know the rules well in advance before you sign that dotted line and swear your life to the United States Military for better or worse.

If you don't agree with the military then just don't sign up - its an all-volunteer force and nobody is forced into it. I have lots of friends in the military that sacrifice a LOT of things do be enlisted - and that is just part of deal.

Summary


Poll active military members to see how THEY feel about it, and go from there. They are the ones getting shot at so they should have a big input on something that could possible effect morale or efficiency. Yeah its crummy that gays can't serve openly but they know the rules before they swear-in.

Don't flame me or use me as your scapegoat to make a rant on civil rights - I'm not some christian evangelical that wants everybody but me to burn in hell - I just see both sides of it and stand somewhere slightly off of the middle. 8)


The military isn't a democracy. You do what you are told, when you're told to do it. Lives depend on it. The military operates on the premise that by the time you are actively serving, there is no doubt that the guy next to you will do what is necessary when he has to. And when I say "he" it could be a "she", but the same holds true.
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Re: Gays serving openly in the military

Postby black udder » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:15 pm

Frank Delicious wrote:
Flipflat wrote:The only problem with gays serving openly is the risk of harassment and division among their fellow soldiers. Could cause alot of unnecessary drama. You and I are cool with gays in the military, but unfortunately not everybody is so tolerant, and NEVER will be. Some people like to hate, probably because that's the way they were hardwired at a young age.


Ah yes the old "better not upset the bigots" argument. I'm quite familiar with that line of reasoning since I live in the south.


Correct, you don't get to choose what you're fighting for when you enlist. You either fight for the USA or you don't. And right now, we support individual personal rights, sexual preference being one of those personal rights.

I really don't understand why some jackass that women won't come within 10' of thinks that every gay man just has to have him.
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Re: Gays serving openly in the military

Postby black udder » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:20 pm

Flipflat wrote:
Frank Delicious wrote:Sorry Gays, you gotta stay out of the military. Some bigots hate you and will beat you up for being gay. We just gonna cave to their hate and keep you completely out of the military.


"we don't negotiate with terrists [bigots]" - George H W Bush


I never said keep them out. Don't ask, don't tell. It's no one's business anyway.

But I do agree, we shouldn't negotiate with terrorists.


the problem with don't ask/don't tell is that Joe Blow average gets to go out on a friday night and pick up a girl in front of the rest of the squad. The gay guys can't do it because they're "under cover".

Biggots need to get over it. If they cause problems, F' 'em, dishonerable discharge, leavenworth, whatever. We need to advance as a species and as long as we cater to the lowest common denominator, we won't.
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Re: Gays serving openly in the military

Postby SkaBob » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:44 pm

black udder wrote:We need to advance as a species and as long as we cater to the lowest common denominator, we won't.


Truer words have rarely been spoken.
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Re: Gays serving openly in the military

Postby uNicedmeMan » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:53 pm

black udder wrote:I really don't understand why some jackass that women won't come within 10' of thinks that every gay man just has to have him.


LOL.

I think this is caused by the media. If people don't personally know any gay folks then they have to go off what they see on tv and it seems like alot of gays on are portrayed as turbo sexual. What if your only opinions about people from New Jersey were derived from "Jersey Shore"? Instead of a balanced perspective you would see only the crazy folks tv wants you to see.
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Re: Gays serving openly in the military

Postby Jeronimo » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:55 pm

SkaBob wrote:
black udder wrote:We need to advance as a species and as long as we cater to the lowest common denominator, we won't.


Truer words have rarely been spoken.


Huh? From a purely evolutionary argument this makes completely and utterly no sense.
I am dumb.

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Re: Gays serving openly in the military

Postby Jesse B 707 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:11 pm

Jeronimo wrote:
SkaBob wrote:
black udder wrote:We need to advance as a species and as long as we cater to the lowest common denominator, we won't.


Truer words have rarely been spoken.


Huh? From a purely evolutionary argument this makes completely and utterly no sense.

Wat?
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Re: Gays serving openly in the military

Postby Dig It » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:19 pm

Jesse B 707 wrote:
Jeronimo wrote:
SkaBob wrote:
black udder wrote:We need to advance as a species and as long as we cater to the lowest common denominator, we won't.


Truer words have rarely been spoken.


Huh? From a purely evolutionary argument this makes completely and utterly no sense.

Wat?

Read his sig.
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Re: Gays serving openly in the military

Postby Jesse B 707 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:33 pm

Dig It wrote:
Jesse B 707 wrote:
Jeronimo wrote:
SkaBob wrote:
black udder wrote:We need to advance as a species and as long as we cater to the lowest common denominator, we won't.


Truer words have rarely been spoken.


Huh? From a purely evolutionary argument this makes completely and utterly no sense.

Wat?

Read his sig.

Image
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Re: Gays serving openly in the military

Postby peppermack » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:36 pm

I think at the heart of this discussion of gays and homosexuality in general is this, do you believe that it is a choice that they have made as a grown up individual to be gay, or are they born that way and it is genetic. I am inclined to think that the second one is true, it is genetic and a gay person has no control over their sexual orientation. If this is the case then it is just like discriminating against a black person, and keeping them out of the military for a genetic trait that does not effect their ability to serve, but some bigoted segment of the population has a problem with. People made the same lame "it will lower moral" justifications for when they did not want to let blacks join the army. You know what, those people who had the problem either got over it, left, or did some inappropriate stuff and dealt with the consequences. I believe that everyone should have the right to protect and defend this great country that we live in, and that they should not be kept from it because they like other dudes, or other chicks.

I firmly believe that in the next decade science will find the genetic marker for homosexuality, and at that point people are still being homophobes then they are just the same as other bigots that hate just for the sake of it.
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