dying lots of the same thing

Disc Artwork, Dying, Technique etc...

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Re: dying lots of the same thing

Postby BennettUA » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:58 pm

SkaBob wrote:How much is too little?

Did you wait for the glue to dry? From the wording of your post, it sounds like you dyed it while the glue was still wet or something...


I think I said it quite a few times in there, but you have to wait for the glue to dry. The disc is wet in one of the pics, after being dyed and rinsing.

You can't dye with the glue not set, and you can't remove the glue AFTER the dye without letting the glue dry again.

Key word here: DRY.

Luckily, Elmer's dries quickly, and turns clear when done. Easy to tell, just gotta read. :o
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Re: dying lots of the same thing

Postby riverboy » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:05 pm

Thanks! Now I need to go try some Elmer's glue dyes.
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Re: dying lots of the same thing

Postby jubuttib » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:53 pm

Back to the topic of multiple dyes of the same thing, I've been thinking about using Elmer's glue with silk screening. Sort of out of my budget, but still. Opinions?
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Re: dying lots of the same thing

Postby ChUcK » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:36 am

This is what plotters are for, really. Dyeing lots of the same thing.

What would be really revolutionary is a way to get dye to bond permanently to the plastic so it stays put instead of diffusing over time. Maybe I should make that my life's work, finding the magic formula/process.
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Re: dying lots of the same thing

Postby marmoset » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:39 am

ChUcK wrote:This is what plotters are for, really. Dyeing lots of the same thing.

Agreed. This seems to be the least time and cost intensive process. If you are cutting the same image 500 times then the cost per mask is probably going to be really low.
ChUcK wrote:What would be really revolutionary is a way to get dye to bond permanently to the plastic so it stays put instead of diffusing over time. Maybe I should make that my life's work, finding the magic formula/process.

I have a theory on this. I need to find time to run the experiment.
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Re: dying lots of the same thing

Postby jubuttib » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:46 am

ChUcK wrote:This is what plotters are for, really. Dyeing lots of the same thing.

What would be really revolutionary is a way to get dye to bond permanently to the plastic so it stays put instead of diffusing over time. Maybe I should make that my life's work, finding the magic formula/process.

I always understood that the dyes used by the disc companies don't really fade or blur over time (though I might be wrong), so maybe the answer is just using some industrial dye that's meant specifically for this type of plastic, not Ritt which isn't really plastic dye to begin with. Of course this could easily get really expensive unless you're selling huge amount of discs and difficult since the exact makeup of the plastic isn't known. Anyone tried Dr. Dyes dyes? Do they fade/blur and how much?
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Re: dying lots of the same thing

Postby SkaBob » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:44 am

I almost forgot about Dr. Dye's dyes...I'll have to try those at some point.

The problem I have with a plotter is I'm still throwing away an ungodly amount of used vinyl...I'm hoping for something where I can take a stencil of some sort, lay it on the disc, paint on some elmer's glue or masking liquid and dip it like that once it's dry. I'll still have waste from the glue/masking, but nowhere near as much as if I used vinyl...
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Re: dying lots of the same thing

Postby marmoset » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:09 am

Image
+
Image
=
quickly sprayed liquid paint mask.
But I don't think it will be cheaper than mass produced vinyls.
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Re: dying lots of the same thing

Postby SkaBob » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:15 am

Where have I mentioned cost as my inspiration for doing this?

I'm pretty sure I always said that I don't want to be throwing out tons of vinyl or tracking down the 3 recyclers in my state that would accept loose vinyl from a consumer - none of whom mention if the adhesive would interfere with their recycling process.

Masking liquid and elmer's glue produce plastic (or semi-plastic) waste as well, but far less of it, and if I can use elmer's glue it's non-toxic and bio-degradable.

Besides...if I use an airbrush, I already have one...my only cost would be the liquid, which IS cheaper than sign vinyl ;)
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Re: dying lots of the same thing

Postby ChUcK » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:04 pm

Skabob, if you want to avoid wasting vinyl, then stop dyeing discs. Realistically speaking, if you have a 30" plotter you can waste *less* vinyl.

30" vinyl is actually 28.5" (in cahoots with those 2x4 assholes, no doubt) but if you plan your job to cut the vinyl in squares measuring 9.5"x9.5", you can get three discs worth of vinyl out of one 9.5" strip. It doesn't leave room for error, and with larger diameter mids it barely covers them, but I haven't had any problems and I've been hand-cutting my 30" roll this way from day one.

For even less vinyl wasting, look for a different way to apply the dye. If you can paint the dye on as a viscous liquid that will stay put it removes the necessity for the "vinyl boat" in which the disc braves the RIT ocean. You can mask off just a small area for a small design, like 3"x3" total, without wasting an entire 9.5x9.5 piece.

Jubuttib, your assumption that factory dyes don't bleed over time is erroneous. They bleed just as much as any other dye. It's easier to notice on an crazy intricate dye from AcidBath than on a splatter flydye. When a splatter dye bleeds through the plastic it just becomes a slightly more spread-out splatter and still looks like it was meant to be that way. When a dye of the Incredible Hulk bleeds, the fault is easier to spot by a few orders of magnitude because the Hulk ain't supposed to be blurry and the eye notices with little difficulty.
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Re: dying lots of the same thing

Postby jubuttib » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:59 am

ChUcK wrote:Jubuttib, your assumption that factory dyes don't bleed over time is erroneous. They bleed just as much as any other dye. It's easier to notice on an crazy intricate dye from AcidBath than on a splatter flydye. When a splatter dye bleeds through the plastic it just becomes a slightly more spread-out splatter and still looks like it was meant to be that way. When a dye of the Incredible Hulk bleeds, the fault is easier to spot by a few orders of magnitude because the Hulk ain't supposed to be blurry and the eye notices with little difficulty.


Thanks, good to know.

SkaBob wrote:Where have I mentioned cost as my inspiration for doing this?

I'm pretty sure I always said that I don't want to be throwing out tons of vinyl or tracking down the 3 recyclers in my state that would accept loose vinyl from a consumer - none of whom mention if the adhesive would interfere with their recycling process.

Masking liquid and elmer's glue produce plastic (or semi-plastic) waste as well, but far less of it, and if I can use elmer's glue it's non-toxic and bio-degradable.

Besides...if I use an airbrush, I already have one...my only cost would be the liquid, which IS cheaper than sign vinyl ;)


Airbrush + silk screens and you can make infinite amounts (well, almost) of your favorite dyes, me thinks. Worth a shot anyways.
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Re: dying lots of the same thing

Postby SkaBob » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:56 am

jubuttib wrote:Airbrush + silk screens and you can make infinite amounts (well, almost) of your favorite dyes, me thinks. Worth a shot anyways.


I was thinking it'd end up being something like that. Hard to know how elmer's glue will come out of an airbrush though :lol:

My only concern in making stencils/screens for that is how to deal with the shape of the disc to keep the picture from looking fish-eyed. I figure at worst, I can use an illustrator filter or something and print them out pre-fish-eyed for when I make the stencil.
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Re: dying lots of the same thing

Postby marmoset » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:20 am

SkaBob wrote:I was thinking it'd end up being something like that. Hard to know how elmer's glue will come out of an airbrush though :lol:

They make fluid tips for HVLP guns that have huge orifices. I think they are used for gelcoat spraying in fiberglass work.

Image
This is one version found at Fibreglast.com. It looks wierd but uses disposable paper cups. $123. Pretty cool IMO.
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Re: dying lots of the same thing

Postby marmoset » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:21 am

BTW, you can probably thin out the glue with something that will flash off quickly. That will make it easier to spray and it will allow finer detail.
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Re: dying lots of the same thing

Postby ChUcK » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:18 pm

If you were going as far as a silkscreening setup, why would you need to spray glue on the disc? I thought screenprinting performed the 'mask task' for you, so you could just airbrush dye onto the disc.

I suppose you would need to do this for a nice dark black dip, because I was never able to get a good black with the airbrush.
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