Maxing out @ 300ft...

[Blake_T]

In fact it felt and looked like I was getting the rip at 5 o'clock instead of 4 that Blake tells is where the best distance throwers have their rips.

i don't think i've ever referenced 4 o'clock except for on putts...

[JHern]

Here's an anecdote to fire up the discussion again...

I remember a martial arts demonstration called "unbendable arm" that went kind of like this:

- Hold your arm straight out and allow somebody else to try and bend it at the elbow. If you resist primarily with the triceps (the knee-jerk instinct), then unless you're very strong that person will likely be able to bend it.

- Now try it again, but instead of trying to resist bending at the elbow, pretend as if you were reaching forward to grab something just out of reach of the tips of your fingers. Put the resistance to bending out of your mind, and focus on the reaching forward. Now it doesn't matter how weak your arm is, it will have become "unbendable."

All this really illustrates is that different muscle groups can be activated when you are trying to achieve the same resulting force, motion, or absence of motion. (And again, it illustrates the importance of the feeling of the effort.) When muscles are activated in the right manner, the motion or lack of motion can be made much stronger.

Now, to the elbow stop. Is the trick of trying to jab forward with the elbow similar to the unbendable arm? Call it "immovable elbow." Clearly the upper arm needs to be held rigidly out, and any flopping around at the shoulder-upper arm joint will compromise the foundation of the elbow fulcrum.

Try it with somebody. Hold your elbow out sideways. If somebody tries to move your elbow (i.e., about the hinge/joint between upper arm and shoulder) as you resist with simple muscles, then they will likely be successful. But if your effort takes the form of an outward stab with your elbow, then you have developed an "immovable elbow."

And a follow-up: Blake, Masterbeato, and others have emphasized getting the disc into the right pec, and this motion puts the elbow as far forward (toward the target) as possible. This seems like it would contribute to a feeling of stabbing the elbow out, and "immovable elbow." Is this the reason why pulling into the right pec as far forward as possible (as opposed to 6 inches sooner) changes the power potential of the throw so dramatically?

[Redisculous]

I think you may be on to something with this, I tried it in my living room a few times and the momentum of my forearm after stopping the elbow like this pulled my whole body around. I've been struggling with transferring momentum this way for a while, so that was kind of exciting for me

I'd like to hear what Blake has to say about it.

[MrScoopa]

It was my major breakthrough. Acting like I was nudging or jabbing with the elbow.

[JR]

In fact it felt and looked like I was getting the rip at 5 o'clock instead of 4 that Blake tells is where the best distance throwers have their rips.

i don't think i've ever referenced 4 o'clock except for on putts...

Then I recalled incorrectly. I haven't made an effort to compare rip points of the longest throwers. Where do they lose the grip on the disc?

[Lithicon]

This is just a guess, but I'd say somewhere around their most extended point, would be right around 3 o'clock. But, again this is just an assumption, and we all know what those make!

[Parks]

Quick timing question: I get that you tighten up your forearm, wrist and grip at position 5 in Keltik's drawing (right? seems to work for me). Basically the instant before the hit.

However, I don't know when to tense up and put power into the elbow/upper arm. I'm thinking position 3. I'm not sure if this is part of what stops the elbow, a result of it, or unrelated.

Or does the upper arm get tensed up later, like right before tightening up the forearm at either position 5 or somewhere between 4 and 5?

I feel like I'm on the verge of smashy smashy, and this is part of it.

[black udder]

Quick timing question: I get that you tighten up your forearm, wrist and grip at position 5 in Keltik's drawing (right? seems to work for me). Basically the instant before the hit.

However, I don't know when to tense up and put power into the elbow/upper arm. I'm thinking position 3. I'm not sure if this is part of what stops the elbow, a result of it, or unrelated.

Or does the upper arm get tensed up later, like right before tightening up the forearm at either position 5 or somewhere between 4 and 5?

I feel like I'm on the verge of smashy smashy, and this is part of it.

Right after 3, between 4 and 5. This looks to be when you should be actively pulling hard and fast.

[josser]

first try and just snap the towel.

gradually add more and more while still being able to get the towel to snap correctly.

Would anybody be interested in posting video of snapping the towel correctly with a little something on it? I can snap the towel, but if I try to do anything that resembles my actual throw it's just a big old towel sweep.

[Lithicon]

Then you're not doing it correctly. Even with a Run up, you can basically snap the towel just as if you're throwing a disc. If you're going through your throw motion, and the towel flops around and doesn't snap. Then you're basically not pulling through correctly.

The easiest way I can explain it and make sense to myself. If I try to tense up my hand or arm, as I pull back and start my pull through too soon, usually the towel will fly around and usually end up hitting me in the face as I try to pull through. Basically meaning your'e trying to start your acceleration in your pull through too soon. But, if you keep your hand and arm loose just until you pull through to the hit. The towel will fly out in a straight line.

You're still "pulling" it through, but your arm and hand are still loose as pull into the pec, from there you start your true acceleration, and you follow that through to the hit. From there the disc (towel) will fling out straight (come by your chest in a straight line, continuing out into a straight line, and snap.) I hope this makes some sense. Cause, it actually works for me.

*Edit* If this isn't right, cause I'm not really that good at the mechanics, and really explaining it well. Those that know better, tell me to shut up, cause I'd rather you do that then let others get wrong info here. This is just how I interpret it, and it seems to work for me, but I know I'm still not doing it 100% of the time when I actually throw a disc. But, I'm working on getting my acceleration in the right spot, to get more from my power.*Edit*

[MrScoopa]

Sounds good to me Lithicon.

Not that I am all that experienced , but that is exactly what I am doing. And, if 'towel snapping' becomes a major sport that would be a technical way to explain how to do it.

When you do the motion you described that's when you will get the increased hand spring or snap on the disc. Blake describes it in his distance article when he is trying to show you what snap feels like.

EDIT: I thought of a good indicator if you are tensing and pulling to early. I find that If I try to accelerate as fast as possible too soon that my follow-through won't occur. My arm just kinda stops after the disc is released. But, If I accelerate very late there isn't a choice in whether I follow-through or not. Hope that made sense.

[Lithicon]

Yeah, it does make sense to kind of feel more of a hand spring through that, cause the towel forces you to tighten to hold on. That is one way to tell also if you accelerate too early with the pull through that the follow through doesn't seem as notable. And like I said, trying to accelerate early always caused the towel to slap me in the face.

[josser]

Then you're not doing it correctly. Even with a Run up, you can basically snap the towel just as if you're throwing a disc. If you're going through your throw motion, and the towel flops around and doesn't snap. Then you're basically not pulling through correctly.

Make no mistake, I know that I am not doing it correctly. <Hangs head in shame>

[Lithicon]

Then you're not doing it correctly. Even with a Run up, you can basically snap the towel just as if you're throwing a disc. If you're going through your throw motion, and the towel flops around and doesn't snap. Then you're basically not pulling through correctly.

Make no mistake, I know that I am not doing it correctly. <Hangs head in shame>

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you look like a fool or anything for asking for clarification. Because, you don't learn unless you ask questions. But, I just find it that sometimes others have to be told their doing things incorrectly, before they'll evaluate how to do it correctly again. But, you obviously knew that or you wouldn't have asked for help, and I commend you for that. And, as I said I know I don't do it correctly all the time with an actual disc in my hand. But, I haven't been doing it in this form exactly, which is why I'm here in the first place. Because I'm learning along side of most of you. I had the start of it, but wrong timing, and such has been pointed out by Blake and others throughout these threads. I plateaued myself, because I've not been following this correctly. Repetition correctly, and, I'm sure I'll get it back. All in all, I commend anyone for asking questions, and really wanting to learn.

[josser]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you look like a fool or anything for asking for clarification.

I didn't at all think that you were trying to make me look like a fool. I was basically nodding my head in agreement that I am not doing it right.

This is one of my favorite threads ever by the way!