Pam?

Disc Artwork, Dying, Technique etc...

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Pam?

Postby ChUcK » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:57 pm

A.Mutt got me thinking about all the possible applications of oil-based masking agents. Say you were to do a 3-color (red, blue, yellow) dye on a white disc. Can oil help? This is my thought:

Step 1: weed and dye the first color.

Step 2: coat the first color with a thin layer of veggie oil, and let it "dry" to gumminess like oil does.

Step 3: weed and dye the second color.

repeat 2&3 for the third color, then wash all the oil off the disc.

Hmmmm, as I was writing this I reminded myself of Elmer's glue- perhaps that would work better than oil, and it would cure a lot quicker. Didn't BennettUA say that Elmer's glue takes some of the dye out of the plastic, but not enough to cause a problem?

Would you even need to let the oil dry, or would it travel to other areas of the disc whilst dipping?

Another problem I can foresee is contaminating your dye with oil, but it shouldn't be TOO hard to get the oil out with a paper towel laid on the surface of the dye. Could be messy, though.
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Re: Pam?

Postby homebrew » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:28 pm

I always thought it would be cool to use oil in the dye to get a bubble effect similar to those hippy light shows that the Allman Brothers and others used.
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Re: Pam?

Postby ChUcK » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:34 pm

you mean like drops of oil in a pan of dye first, then dip the disc?
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Re: Pam?

Postby Leopard » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:44 pm

Try crayons Chuck -- it's a legit art technique, a wax resist

for super fun, cover in crayon and scratch your design out of the wax layer

(match wax color to plastic color to minimize absorption of your crayoning)

also, Cattle Markers are massive oil-paint sticks on the cheap. The white one should be useful for you. I spent 2 years of art school using cattle markers as my go-to .. they are versatile and crazy cheap. I got mine $1 a pop. While wet, they scratch out and manipulate well. It dries to a peelable film.
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Re: Pam?

Postby ChUcK » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:56 pm

That Cattle Marker sounds like the product I am looking for in this scenario. How long does a thin film take to dry, and how thick would you guess it needs to be in order to completely mask the disc under normal dyeing conditions?
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Re: Pam?

Postby homebrew » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:00 pm

ChUcK wrote:you mean like drops of oil in a pan of dye first, then dip the disc?

Totally. Multiple colors with big blobs of oil would be cool. Let me find some pics to better illustrate it.
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Re: Pam?

Postby Leopard » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:10 pm

Within a minute it's no longer workable, ie it'd peel and tear if scratched. Within 10-15 it should be cured. It lays on pretty thick... it goes on with the consistency of lip balm, in that it glides easily but with pressure it malforms and lays on a thick coat. Has the feel of wet vs dry clay. Also if you keep it sealed (Saran wrap) it will remain workable longer. Every time I used a stick, I'd have to peel it's outer shell off where it had dried and encased itself.

My suppliers were always feed and hardware stores. An art store would sell an oil stick 1/10th the size for around $10-20


One time I combined those oils with water-based acrylic, and I believe it was the oil that cracked. This painting was on glass though, so a nearly inadherent material. I suspect it might hold up in a dye bath on plastic, OR crack up for incredible textures.

Google some printmaking resist techniques .. Probably get some ideas.
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Re: Pam?

Postby ChUcK » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:14 pm

See, this is exactly the shit I was talking about in AMutt's thread- pooled knowledge leads to greater results. This is definitely on my to-experiment list.
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Re: Pam?

Postby A.Mutt » Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:46 pm

good idea with the cattle markers Leopard!
All those years of art school myself, I'm a bit disappointed in myself for not having thought of it yet.

you know, as I was typing that I realized that in cleaning out my closet the other night I found a block of pariffin (sp?) wax that I used to utilize to make rails more easily grindable back when I would skate. I wonder if that could be used also in a similar fashion ... an experiment is brewing in my head.
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Re: Pam?

Postby A.Mutt » Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:54 pm

ChUcK wrote:A.Mutt got me thinking about all the possible applications of oil-based masking agents. Say you were to do a 3-color (red, blue, yellow) dye on a white disc. Can oil help? This is my thought:

Step 1: weed and dye the first color.

Step 2: coat the first color with a thin layer of veggie oil, and let it "dry" to gumminess like oil does.

Step 3: weed and dye the second color.

repeat 2&3 for the third color, then wash all the oil off the disc.

Hmmmm, as I was writing this I reminded myself of Elmer's glue- perhaps that would work better than oil, and it would cure a lot quicker. Didn't BennettUA say that Elmer's glue takes some of the dye out of the plastic, but not enough to cause a problem?

Would you even need to let the oil dry, or would it travel to other areas of the disc whilst dipping?

Another problem I can foresee is contaminating your dye with oil, but it shouldn't be TOO hard to get the oil out with a paper towel laid on the surface of the dye. Could be messy, though.


From what I had found during my experimenting with Pam was that as long as you did a smooth quick flip and didn't soak the disc with spray that it wouldn't run, and I didn't find much of a difference between letting the oil sit on the disc for a minute to let it dry versus right before the dip.
The dye definitely does get contaminated with the oil, but at my wifes request to not make a terrible mess in the kitchen I chose to dispose of the contaminated dye after I was sure I was done using it instead of trying to separate, but I do believe you're right that it can be done. I would use the same oiled dye to do other discs with the same technique without it messing anything up, but haven't tried to do a solid dye after a sprayed disc had gone in that mix.
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Re: Pam?

Postby riverboy » Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:57 pm

ChUcK wrote:Hmmmm, as I was writing this I reminded myself of Elmer's glue- perhaps that would work better than oil, and it would cure a lot quicker. Didn't BennettUA say that Elmer's glue takes some of the dye out of the plastic, but not enough to cause a problem?

In my experience it takes out only the excess dye that would fade away. You can get truer colors quicker this way.
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Re: Pam?

Postby A.Mutt » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:01 pm

riverboy wrote:
ChUcK wrote:Hmmmm, as I was writing this I reminded myself of Elmer's glue- perhaps that would work better than oil, and it would cure a lot quicker. Didn't BennettUA say that Elmer's glue takes some of the dye out of the plastic, but not enough to cause a problem?

In my experience it takes out only the excess dye that would fade away. You can get truer colors quicker this way.


for what its worth, oil does the same thing.
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Re: Pam?

Postby Leopard » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:14 pm

crack an egg and scramble it -- crush up eggshell to small pieces -- spread egg on masked disc -- apply eggshell to disc and let dry -- dip -- enjoy texture -- experiment
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Re: Pam?

Postby FierceTable » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:12 pm

I can't say I know the process to acheive this result, but I do know this started out as a white yo-yo and was probably dyed with RIT dye. I can't say if oil was used, but it's hard to deny the oil-like effect. Definitely a beautiful effect to strive for.
Image

Here's a link where he briefly talks about it along with a link inside that post directing you to a gallery of his dyes.

http://yoyoing.com/news/viewpost.php?post=187484
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Re: Pam?

Postby Roy » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:23 pm

Dont forget all the varieties of Pam. Buttery and such. One might be better than the other. Which one coats a pan the most?
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