Working on new form.

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Working on new form.

Postby MrScoopa » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:22 pm

So, after taking some new videos I was not happy with the way my form looked. My pull was far from my body. I was releasing later, but still not late enough(no late acceleration!), and still not weight forward enough.

Even though distances and accuracy have improved quite a bit, it seems I was improving at doing it the wrong way :lol: Maybe I'm being to hard on myself I don't know. 350' s curves are nice(162 valk), but I want more distance and more consistency!

here's a video that shows my older form before I decided to revamp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ_91Ponavw

So, I've committed to the right pec drill like so many others. Before I was in a hurry, and I didn't improve as much as I could have in 8 months.

I don't have a video of an actual drive just messing around in my living room. So, I don't know if you can tell much from that. I'm just seeing if everything is fundamentally right. This is with the slight bent elbow reach-back I was using today. I am of course not going all out(which I never do while practicing like this) don't want to take out the TV, eek!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZzlry9lf-c

So far so good. Played today - had mixed results, but it was mostly positive.
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Re: Working on new form.

Postby rehder » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:56 am

obviously I cant comment on what your throw looks like atm. But in relation to your right pec drill, you are just pulling your arm around your body, and not really punching towards the target. This leads me to believe that your throwing form doesnt look like your right pec drill at all.

For punching towards the target check Dans throwing instructional vid again. And compare his and your right pec drill. At 28 seconds he only punches towards the target, which you dont.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nED7gcXo ... PL&index=6
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Re: Working on new form.

Postby MrScoopa » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:19 pm

Thank for pointing that out rehder. I see what you are saying. I've watched that video probably 20 or 30 times over the months, and stuff still gets past me lol!

I'll take actual throwing videos tomorrow, but I am pretty sure I haven't been punching toward the target at all. Instead doing what MB is talking about by "wildly swinging your arms around".

One step at a time.

Thanks again :wink:
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Re: Working on new form.

Postby JHern » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:00 pm

Yeah, you're not stopping your elbow, and therefore you're not subsequently flinging your lower arm forward with your shoulder/torso. You're doing things the way I used to do. Your muscles lose strength a lot as they get close to 30 MPH in your motion, so you'll never be able to throw the disc much faster than that.
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Re: Working on new form.

Postby MrScoopa » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:14 pm

Thank you JHern. I am re-reading the right-pec post discussing the stopping of the elbow.

All of this help is much appreciated.
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Re: Working on new form.

Postby JHern » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:29 pm

Here is a series of sketches and descriptions that I've been doodling with for a while, based mostly on watching the Avery Jenkins video and his positioning. The dimensions of the arms and shoulders are based on a scale model of my own arms and shoulders. It still needs polishing, but the basic stuff is in there. Here I'm calling "the hit" everything that happens after pulling into the right pec (I haven't put Part 1 together yet).

Note the elbow stop, in particular. In your throws, your elbow kept moving around until it was practically pointing behind your back. However, your elbow points toward the target when you get to the right pec, and from that point on it shouldn't swivel back any further than that. Your elbow becomes a fulcrum that is rigidly attached to your shoulders, hence transferring all the power of your legs and torso down your upper arm to the elbow joint.

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Re: Working on new form.

Postby MrScoopa » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:38 pm

Thank you once again JHern. Being able to see exactly frame by frame with descriptions is making the process easier!

Okay here are the vids. What I have noticed myself is that the disc might be slipping out early.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRw03N-eC20

This is what I mean by coming out early - the disc has just left my hand:

Image
Image

Throws weren't great but at least I am throwing more in front of myself and accelerating later.
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Re: Working on new form.

Postby JHern » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:19 pm

You are still moving your elbow too much. If you move your elbow all the way around too soon, as you do, then you actually end up pulling backwards on the disc just before release. This does two things: you slow the disc down instead of speeding it up, and your fingers slip off.

Slow down, and take your time. Do some slow throws first, and build up speed over time. Stop trying to throw the disc with your arm! It isn't efficient. You want to feel like you're whipping your forearm out with the more massive strength of your torso and shoulders.

This thread has helped me a lot...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13291

Brad posted two-part videos that are awesome...

More Snap 2009 Part #1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGGYsSUGKXk

More Snap 2009 Part #2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhM6XMxlErk

His idea, of trying to think as if you're slinging a hammer around in the hit, has helped me tremendously. The reason is that by trying to get around the disc like this, in the chop, I find that I'm stopping my elbow. Its magic! I don't know why this mental trick works, but it is pretty damn clever!
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Re: Working on new form.

Postby MrScoopa » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:25 pm

It is apparent to me now that I have NEVER thrown a disc without strong arming it.

One thing that has confused me is the use of the word pull. When I hear it I think lawnmower( the one that won't start unless you pull the crap out of it ) Now I understand it as my ARM is being pulled not by its own muscles but by the hips and shoulders.

It was discouraging at first to realize how wrong I was. Now I see it as being just one step closer than I was.

Now. How to fix the strong arming:

I will feel the weight of the disc. The effect of my arm moving across my chest will be caused by the rotation of my hips and shoulders NOT by muscles in my arm. My arm is there as a guide and to hold the disc aloft - not as propulsion. If i move my arm to fast the disc becomes "weightless". Going Slow.

Thank you for your patience.
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Re: Working on new form.

Postby Redisculous » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:28 pm

I came to this same realization a while ago. I'm pretty sure the pull across the chest works the same way as the elbow chop, except the pause is with the shoulders instead of the elbow. It's really easy if you just pay attention to the angle of your upper arm to your shoulders. Lateley I feel more like I am just trying to throw my arm with my torso than throwing the disc with my arm.
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Re: Working on new form.

Postby JHern » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:40 am

Redisculous wrote:...I feel more like I am just trying to throw my arm with my torso than throwing the disc with my arm.

Wow, great way to say that! I like it. Mind if I steal it?
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Re: Working on new form.

Postby MrScoopa » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:33 am

Alright I have been working pretty damned hard. If feels like so much longer than a month and a half since I started this new adventure. It has been fun though!

Here is a new video. 3 from side 3 from behind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyyAbo6mevs

I can hit over 300' on flat ground pretty consistently. I've noticed I'm not really getting my weight forward. What I have tried to fix that is the skate-board kick masterbeato was talking about. It feels so awkward. Should I just stick with that method and let it become natural?

Also, my pull line starts low and ends high. I am getting pretty good at hyzer-flipping with that method, and when I am hitting it well I can flip flat my max weight Monarch. Should I fiddle with having a higher pull-line?

Anything else is welcome also. Thanks guys!
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Re: Working on new form.

Postby JR » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:45 am

If I saw correctly some throws broke the arm swing plane not every one which is good. try to move the right leg three to five inches to the right or straight and mild hyzer throws and see what happens. Then try the x step or shuffle steps at slow speeds -initial momentum may help with getting the weight forward.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Working on new form.

Postby FierceTable » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:10 pm

I know next to nothing about how to throw well backhand, but is there any problem with taking the disc back and around the body like that? I've always heard an arcing motion was less desireable and that straight back and straight through tends to be preferable (unless you're trying to throw an anhyzer line).
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Re: Working on new form.

Postby JR » Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:46 am

The more you deviate from straight line pull the more susceptibility there is to timing and form errors. Usually seriously hurting accuracy and repeatability without sound basic form and a lot of practice. You do generate more power thus distance by reaching back toward the left of the teepad RHBH with straightish arm pull which moves from away from the body to right pec position. Or bent elbow form keeping the elbow bent and reaching back toward to right side of the tee.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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