Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Information, Questions, Discussion about Throwing Mechanics and Technique

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Postby Redisculous » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:24 am

Does anyone care to talk about the timing and function of this? It is very obvious in some peoples throw that they are using thier left shoulder to move thier right shoulder. Look at Dan Beto, Brad Walker, Avery Jenkins, they all do it. Dan's is a little more obvious, it looks like he isn't just keeping his left arm close to his body, but throwing it forward so it yanks his shoulder forward. Brad and Avery look kind of like they are reaching back with the left arm but the result is the same, the left shoulder is driven forward.

I was messing around with this in practice yesterday, to help punch my elbow forward (it seems easiest to feel some results from doing this while the upper arm is still somewhat reaching back) and I was throwing my mids a good 20 feet further than normal. Am I just imagining this?
Anode | Comet | Axis |Vector | PPD | SPD | CPD
Redisculous
Fairway Surgeon
User avatar
 
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:17 am
Location: Southern Wisconsin, where the best courses are in Illinois!
Favorite Disc: Axis

Re: Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Postby adamb258 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:21 am

hmm I have wondered the same thing but have yet to try it, interesting topic.
adamb258
Noob
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Postby masterbeato » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:38 pm

that is weight transfer, if you seen good results from what you have tried then your are now correctly transferring your weight.

if it is a bad result, it could also be more apparent with me in older videos that i am hunched over going through my bad motions back then.
My PDGA - Dan Beto

Frank Delicious wrote:and now we know the secret to your power. You are more machine than bear!
masterbeato
lol Z predator
 
Posts: 1907
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:37 am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Favorite Disc: Pro D X2

Re: Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Postby Redisculous » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:42 pm

I was out messing around with this again today trying to get the timing down. I am for sure getting my weight forward now, but at the same time I feel like I am getting my body rotating in a much different way than I used to. Is that what weight transfer is for? I think I read a thread a while ago (search function ftw) where it was stated that all the rotating and pivoting will take care of itself if you just focus on getting your weight moving forward.

I just want to know if I am on to something or if I am learning something I'll just have to unlearn later.

If anyone wants to try this (it works much better with a disc in your hand) I am just reaching back, and causing my upper body to rotate 90 deg. by swinging my left arm forward (Keep it down and close to your body). When I do this It takes me through the whole throwing motion automaticaly. The shoulders fire the elbow forward, the disc comes across the chest, the elbow seems to stop in just the right place and causes the wrist to bend etc
Anode | Comet | Axis |Vector | PPD | SPD | CPD
Redisculous
Fairway Surgeon
User avatar
 
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:17 am
Location: Southern Wisconsin, where the best courses are in Illinois!
Favorite Disc: Axis

Re: Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Postby JR » Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:37 am

Redisculous wrote:Does anyone care to talk about the timing and function of this? It is very obvious in some peoples throw that they are using thier left shoulder to move thier right shoulder. Look at Dan Beto, Brad Walker, Avery Jenkins, they all do it. Dan's is a little more obvious, it looks like he isn't just keeping his left arm close to his body, but throwing it forward so it yanks his shoulder forward. Brad and Avery look kind of like they are reaching back with the left arm but the result is the same, the left shoulder is driven forward.

I was messing around with this in practice yesterday, to help punch my elbow forward (it seems easiest to feel some results from doing this while the upper arm is still somewhat reaching back) and I was throwing my mids a good 20 feet further than normal. Am I just imagining this?


No imagination included. Extra muscles powering the throw driving a lever is basic physics.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11473
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Postby Claytoon » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:06 pm

I feel like this might be the inverse of what I have been focusing on lately, but with ultimately the same result. I have been trying to focus on really pulling with the back of my forward shoulder, which correlates with driving the rear shoulder forward. I have felt the reason this is giving me more distance is because it is taking my focus off of my arm completely, letting it act more as a whip and preventing the strong-arm.
Claytoon
Noob
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:08 am
Favorite Disc: Sidewinder

Re: Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Postby Blake_T » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:34 pm

bringing the off-shoulder does aid in the throw...

however, most people rush their upper body rotation and if that is the case, that is bad, regardless of whether or not there is an active assistance by the off shoulder.

basically, you don't need to force the left shoulder through to go 450'. however, if you can go 450' without it, you can likely go 470' with it.

if your average controlled drive is under 400', i wouldn't really place much emphasis on this as there is a tendency to rush the upper body if you try to force it.
Blake_T
Super Sekret Technique Jedi
 
Posts: 5824
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 12:44 am
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Postby masterbeato » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:29 pm

shoulders after release
Image
if this answers anyones questions
My PDGA - Dan Beto

Frank Delicious wrote:and now we know the secret to your power. You are more machine than bear!
masterbeato
lol Z predator
 
Posts: 1907
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:37 am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Favorite Disc: Pro D X2

Re: Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Postby masterbeato » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:43 pm

250'
Image

330'
Image

360'
Image
My PDGA - Dan Beto

Frank Delicious wrote:and now we know the secret to your power. You are more machine than bear!
masterbeato
lol Z predator
 
Posts: 1907
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:37 am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Favorite Disc: Pro D X2

Re: Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Postby Redisculous » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:33 am

I think what I am taking away from this is that I have been forcing my shoulders around with the shoulder muscles, instead of letting the shoulder rotation be "incidental" (as I read in the maxing out at 300' thread). I think driving them around with the opposite am took my shoulder muscles out of the equation, allowing me to get a much more relaxed whip with my arm.
Anode | Comet | Axis |Vector | PPD | SPD | CPD
Redisculous
Fairway Surgeon
User avatar
 
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:17 am
Location: Southern Wisconsin, where the best courses are in Illinois!
Favorite Disc: Axis

Re: Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Postby seabas22 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:12 pm

If you look at Steve Brinster's shoulders, it looks like his shoulders collapse together (like a figure skater spinning) right before the the pull and then after the hit and follow through his shoulders are stretched out completely creating a massive whip. His first shot in this vid was sick, close to 600'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrbzu-7dO_g
seabas22
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:52 pm
Favorite Disc: thunderbird

Re: Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Postby MotoDj » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:58 pm

sorry, but which guy is steve?
i never seen a picture of him

excuse my ignorance, he's never been to our weekly, and i have no clue who he is :)
MotoDj
Steward Turkeylink: This ranks means I can't read or follow basic directions
User avatar
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:37 am
Location: Elkhart, IN
Favorite Disc: i carry 6 favorites

Re: Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Postby masterbeato » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:09 pm

Brinster = the 4th guy.

him and Walter Haney have the best form in DG. watch how much he accelerates, it is just a massive explosion.

hard to see at that angle but his slow motion replay at the hit is just as fast as everyone else's regular accelerated hit heh, pretty much.
My PDGA - Dan Beto

Frank Delicious wrote:and now we know the secret to your power. You are more machine than bear!
masterbeato
lol Z predator
 
Posts: 1907
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:37 am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Favorite Disc: Pro D X2

Re: Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Postby masterbeato » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:15 pm

oh yeah, and the second bit Brinster = 2nd up.
My PDGA - Dan Beto

Frank Delicious wrote:and now we know the secret to your power. You are more machine than bear!
masterbeato
lol Z predator
 
Posts: 1907
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:37 am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Favorite Disc: Pro D X2

Re: Driving the non-throwing shoulder forward

Postby black udder » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:19 pm

Order: Moser, Jenkins, Locastro, Brinster, Pitts Then Moser, Brinster, jenkins, Locastro, Pitt

You can see the guys with the big arms taking the hyzer route on the 2nd hole.

Watch these things:

1) How long the back foot stays planted.
2) How close Brinster keeps the disc into the right pec vs Jenkins
3) How late Moser pulls. It's really evident in the slow motion.

Just some interesting things.
black udder
Naturally Athletic
User avatar
 
Posts: 4857
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:13 pm
Location: Richmond, VA
Favorite Disc: The one in my hand

Next

Return to Technique

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests