Accessibility to the game vs. falling putt rule

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Accessibility to the game vs. falling putt rule

Postby Mr.Bigg » Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:01 pm

I played one of my first league type games last year and I was very nicely informed I was doing falling putts. The guy said he wouldn't call them, but others would. The guy was really nice about it, but it was still frustrating. You learn to putt a certain way, with a bit of follow through, pretty naturally. The you find out it's illegal and have to relearn to putt. I looked it up and found the rule when I got home.

I was never any good at putting, so it's not a huge deal, but my 2 cents, this is a bad rule. It may have implications at pro levels, but for a recreational player who may want to play a league or tournament for the first time, a non-intuitive rule that significantly changes the muscle memory you have put into the game is a bad idea. It makes the game less accessible and less friendly to newbies.
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Re: Accessibility to the game vs. falling putt rule

Postby Booter » Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:08 pm

i disagree with thinking its a bad rule. i think it teaches people to not rely on such a "crutch". i see people do falling putts all the time and get called on it and still do it because theyre used to it. if its from 10m out i dont care. its not that big of a deal but when its 10m in or something like an 8' putt? thats different. i only say this because i used to do the falling putt for a long time til i started playing with different people who played sanctioned tourneys. i learned to not rely on it and dont do it anymore. i know people who are new to the game and are learning dont know any better but im sure hes only telling you because eventually you might want to play tourneys or league. its just another way to prevent bad habits,everybody has bad habits and the only way to get out of them is to learn the proper way thats allowed, if you will.
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Re: Accessibility to the game vs. falling putt rule

Postby ChUcK » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:13 pm

I feel your pain, Mr. Bigg. I remember how disappointed I was when I learned that organized sports had organized sets of rules that competitors are expected to follow in organized situations.

What would have really pissed you off is if the fellow player in question wasn't such a Sally and had justly penalized you for each instance of breaking the rules. That's what I would have done if you and I were playing for each others' cash.

If you want to just enjoy the game as you normally do, play casually. If you want to compete against others with stakes involved, learn the rules.
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Re: Accessibility to the game vs. falling putt rule

Postby black udder » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:46 pm

If you saw how some people could take advantage of that rule, you might reconsider your stance. odds are, while you've put in what you believe a fair amount of time, to get good, you'll have to put in 10 times that amount of time, so learning now is probably a good thing. Hopefully, you can get a good routine and be set forever.

It's a lot like driving for distance. When you start out, few people have such a gift as to be able to do it all right straight out of the gate, so eventually, you discover that you've got to relearn everything and start from scratch. If you want the distance, you'll do it. Just be thankful this wasn't something you'd been doing for 15 years or something :)
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Re: Accessibility to the game vs. falling putt rule

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:12 pm

To do falling putts well (but still illegally), you would want to learn how to "deadfall" toward the basket and do some slam dunks to really secure those 8 footers...
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Re: Accessibility to the game vs. falling putt rule

Postby nohr » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:44 am

A falling putt is an easy putt. Your motmentum is already going towards the basket so it is easier to make the disc go straight into the basket. I called someone out on their putt at an ice bowl. It is better to inform new players as soon as possible they might be breaking the rules.

You can still do "your" putt. You just can't do it with in 33 feet. Actually this might not be true depending on what you are doing wrong. The person I called out was taking a step forward with their left foot when they released. They didn't see the violation and thought they stayed planted the whole time. After he calmed down we talked about it more. For his putt I told him he could step up to his lie with his left foot but not past it.

The reality is that you can probably continue with your falling putt in league/tournament play. People don't like to call others out on rules violations. If you stay in Rec most people don't know the rules so they can't enforce them. There is all kinds of stupid stuff you can get stroked for. When I see someone consistently breaking the rules I start off my conversation with "Do you play in a lot of tournaments?" if the person sounds like they do or want to I let them know what they are doing wrong.
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Re: Accessibility to the game vs. falling putt rule

Postby SkaBob » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:52 am

When one or two out of every few hundred disc golfers learns to putt everything with a jump/falling/running putt, it's hard to feel sympathetic to the tiny handful of golfers if they get upset about that rule.

That's probably why the attitudes in here are so aggressive about this, but really it's an important rule. If it's not followed, who's to stop someone from doing a Michael Jordan style 15 foot jump to the pin to drop the disc in, rather than actually putting?
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Re: Accessibility to the game vs. falling putt rule

Postby Mr.Bigg » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:16 am

It's obvious, intuitive I'll use again, that you can't jump and throw the disc in the air. So Micheal Jordan putts are hardly the same thing. And it's the thing that makes disc golf different from organized competitive sports that's the problem with rules that aren't common sense. Most people will not learn to play disc golf from a coach or seasoned player, they try out the sport because there is a course at their park with a couple friends, and it's simple enough to learn without anyone telling you what to do.

Again though, no animosity towards the guy, I believe in playing by the rules of the game. I just think it's unfortunate rule because it's not intuitive. You could make putting harder by only giving someone 3 seconds from the time they take their stance to putt, and then a person taking a lot of time would be a crutch or an advantage, but that would be a bad rule too because it's significantly different from the way you would pick up the game without instruction.
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Re: Accessibility to the game vs. falling putt rule

Postby Mark Ellis » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:21 am

Mr.Bigg wrote:I played one of my first league type games last year and I was very nicely informed I was doing falling putts. The guy said he wouldn't call them, but others would. The guy was really nice about it, but it was still frustrating. You learn to putt a certain way, with a bit of follow through, pretty naturally. The you find out it's illegal and have to relearn to putt. I looked it up and found the rule when I got home.

I was never any good at putting, so it's not a huge deal, but my 2 cents, this is a bad rule. It may have implications at pro levels, but for a recreational player who may want to play a league or tournament for the first time, a non-intuitive rule that significantly changes the muscle memory you have put into the game is a bad idea. It makes the game less accessible and less friendly to newbies.


Keeping score is another problem. As soon as you join society there are all these rules which can, in fact, get in the way of our natural instincts and desires. Darn rules. Who invented those things anyway?

Golf discs are non-intuitive. They are often overstable and cut hard at the end of their flight. If they would just fly straight and glide all of 50 feet like a beach frisbee it would keep everyone more on the same level. Then we could ask the big question at the end of the round, "Who had the most fun?" and award the winners with applause and even more fun. I'm not sure what to do if more than one person claimed to have the most fun. I guess we could put both in a mud pit, tie them together at one wrist, give each a knife and let them decide it themselves.

Sorry Mr. Bigg, I was just joking with you. The real problem is that you started playing with good players. Wait until you find yourself in a group with a cranky Pro, they are even worse and have exacting ideas about courtesy (Don't even breathe loudly when they are putting, don't move either!!). The good news is that your development as a player does not really begin until you start playing with good players. Some folks play only with the same group of buddies for years, dooming them to mediocrity. But you took the big step, now the clock starts ticking. Everything you have developed so far doesn't count and doesn't matter much. Your real potential as a player starts now.

Good players have a bunch of rules but if you watch them and learn from them your game will skyrocket. Before long you will find yourself saying, "Uh, hey dude, you can't push that branch out of the way when you throw and you have to stick a foot behind your disc, not off to the side."
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Re: Accessibility to the game vs. falling putt rule

Postby Frank Delicious » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:24 am

Chuck Kennedy wrote:To do falling putts well (but still illegally), you would want to learn how to "deadfall" toward the basket and do some slam dunks to really secure those 8 footers...


I think you should be able to do this from inside 10' but others could come in a try and reject your slam dunk putt. That would really spice up those gimme putts.
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Re: Accessibility to the game vs. falling putt rule

Postby veganray » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:49 am

I played one of my organized soccer games last year and I was very nicely informed I was handling the ball. The referee said he wouldn't call them, but others would. The ref was really nice about it, but it was still frustrating. You learn to play soccer a certain way, with a bit of using your hands, pretty naturally. The you find out it's illegal and have to relearn to play. I looked it up and found the rule when I got home.

I was never any good at kicking, so it's not a huge deal, but my 2 cents, this is a bad rule. It may have implications at pro levels, but for a recreational player who may want to play a league or tournament for the first time, a non-intuitive rule that significantly changes the muscle memory you have put into the game is a bad idea. It makes the game less accessible and less friendly to newbies.
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Re: Accessibility to the game vs. falling putt rule

Postby curt » Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:00 pm

You could make putting harder by only giving someone 3 seconds from the time they take their stance to putt, and then a person taking a lot of time would be a crutch or an advantage, but that would be a bad rule too because it's significantly different from the way you would pick up the game without instruction.


Actually, this rule is already in place, only change 3 to 30.

Something that I don't think has been brought up yet is that there is a history to this rule. Back in the day, the people who write the rules made some observations about the way the game was being played. People really were slam dunking the disc (the dead fall thing brought up earlier). The rules committee decided that this practice was unprofessional looking and gave an unfair advantage to tall people, which is something they didn't want the sport to favor. They implemented the 10 meter rule for those reasons.

Also, it is extremely difficult to tell when someone is properly executing a legal putt with a follow through. The motion is very different from driving, where release clearly comes before the feet pass the line. When people jump/fall putt, the release can come at any number of different times, so having the 10 meter rule in effect reduces the number of times this call needs to be made.

As a side note, I think you will also find it easier to accurately make putts without the follow through, especially from short distance.
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Re: Accessibility to the game vs. falling putt rule

Postby mobster » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:08 pm

veganray wrote:I played one of my organized soccer games last year and I was very nicely informed I was handling the ball. The referee said he wouldn't call them, but others would. The ref was really nice about it, but it was still frustrating. You learn to play soccer a certain way, with a bit of using your hands, pretty naturally. The you find out it's illegal and have to relearn to play. I looked it up and found the rule when I got home.

I was never any good at kicking, so it's not a huge deal, but my 2 cents, this is a bad rule. It may have implications at pro levels, but for a recreational player who may want to play a league or tournament for the first time, a non-intuitive rule that significantly changes the muscle memory you have put into the game is a bad idea. It makes the game less accessible and less friendly to newbies.


Brilliant. I was going to say something along the same lines.
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Re: Accessibility to the game vs. falling putt rule

Postby Parks » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:06 am

Frank Delicious wrote:I think you should be able to do this from inside 10' but others could come in a try and reject your slam dunk putt. That would really spice up those gimme putts.


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